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Enda80
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
108 Posts |
 Posted - 02/26/2009 : 7:27:10 PM
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Discussing the 1982 version of I, the Jury, someone wrote
"The problem, though, was that by now the whole ‘private eye’ genre had, like Westerns, become dated and fallen out of audience favor".
http://Jabootu.net/?p=591
"Film genres die. Westerns were once the biggest, most popular genre. Now they make one or two a year. Medical movies, like the Dr. Kildare flicks, faded away also. Private eye pictures, and Whodunits".
I find it interesting that, although it has remained alive in print (many new authors and old authors who remain in print), private eye films and Whodunnits have largely disappeared from the silver screen. Hercule Poirot's last film on the big screen came out in 1988. Sherlock Holmes' return to the screen in 2009 follows at least twenty years away from it. Note that people have already started screaming "Kung Fu Holmes".
(Actually, the Doyle Sherlock Holmes stories do not quite fit the pure armchair cozy detective cliche. Holmes does display peak human strength at times and mastery of disguise, traits we usually associate with other genres.)
I cannot think of any actor to have played a movie P.I. in two or three consecutive films in the last twenty films.
Are these genres too "mature" for the modern silver screen? |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2009 : 8:36:03 PM
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It may be that to be good (generally speaking) some level of engagement is actually asked of the audience for these. You know, follow clues, rule out suspects, pay attention to the red herrings and twists of plot... no surprise that in a culture that takes "jokes" as lame as the ones in the whole "Scary Movie" type spoof genre and still has to explain each one verbally to the audience ("Why look, it's Britteny Spears!")that's not going to bring them into the theater.
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I sleep now!! |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2009 : 9:17:55 PM
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What probably killed off the private eye/whodunit genre in the 70s and 80s was the fact that it was getting way too much competition from TV (Remington Steele, Magnum P.I., Hart to Hart, Moonlighting, Simon and Simon, Murder She Wrote, and PBS's Mystery to name but a few). When genre addicts are getting more than their fill on a weekly basis for free it's difficult to lure them into theaters where they have to pay for it.
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Edited by - zombiewhacker on 02/26/2009 9:18:51 PM |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2009 : 07:06:31 AM
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True, and as sardu said, the genre requires an attention span beyond 30 seconds.
Hummm...also, does the expectation of the movie answering its own questions make some audience members sit back and just wait for the inevitable?
Marvin the Paranoid Android to Buzz Lightyear "Too infinity and beyond-i've been there, its rubbish!"
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KODT
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2009 : 12:13:12 PM
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Also...
Must like Westerns these days, Hollywood doesn\'t go back to mysteries unless it some sort of gimick.
Like Unforgiven wanted to explore the nature of violence. Silverado wanted to show a western using contemporary film techinique. Dances with Wolves used a different take on the relationship between whites and indians.
The last who-done-it that got any real play was Basic Instinct. I think we all know the gimick they used on that one. The movie started out with a Law and Order feel to it. Then it went the way of so many direct to video imitators.
The closest we had these days are the M. Night Shamalyn imitators that try their best give us a surprise ending. Like Perfect Stranger. But these movies have turned out to be crap and are doing nothing to reinvigorate the genre.
The only way I see mysteries being given another try is through the continued raping of old television shows to get movies. So if Murder She Wrote the movie or Rockford Files the movie makes any type of coin, then we might get new era of the mystery genre.
But don\'t hold your breath.
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2009 : 4:07:27 PM
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2008 had NANCY DREW (Mystery In Hollywood). But that was a poorly done "teen movie". It was far from satisfying as a mystery.
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
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RossM
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2009 : 8:17:19 PM
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| Also movies, like television shows jump the shark. The verbal and visual ideas that were so fresh in the 1940s for great movies like Murder My Sweet and the The Big Sleep simply got repeated so much that they became cliches to be easily parodied in movies like Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid and The Cheap Detective. For this kind of movie to bring out financing and a large audience it really must be something special, like Chinatown. |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2009 : 10:51:36 PM
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You could argue that Chinatown was a gimicky film.
The idea behind it was same as Silverado. A mystery film using up-to-date film techniques. |
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hbrennan
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Philippines
1455 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2009 : 02:50:03 AM
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I think that the biggest factor mentioned was the lack of audience attention span. At least when it comes to making the big bucks. I'm wondering, though, if there are any number of whodunits being made by smaller, independent companies and if so - how are they being received by audiences?
"...yet it hadn't destroyed his brain."
re: Charles "The Butcher" Benton (1956)
http://www.henrybrennan.com/
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Ken HPoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
1530 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2009 : 08:21:06 AM
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For what it's worth, I think I cover my thoughts on this topic at some length (I know, big surprise) in my Stranger Among Us review.
PEGGY: I don't see how having a girl on the team would ruin it. Did a woman judge ruin the Supreme Court?
HANK: Yes, and that woman's name was Earl Warren.
--King of the Hill |
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SFfilmfan
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2009 : 1:59:58 PM
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| I think Flangepart is on to something. The last actor I really associate with P.I. is Stacy Keach playing Mike Hammer, which he did in a number of entertaining made-for-TV movies. The Kathleen turner attempt to do V.I. Warsawski (or something like that) was a disaster. These days, much of the audience does not seem to have much of an attention span, which is required for mystery/whodunnit type of stories. |
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Enda80
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
108 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2009 : 4:11:04 PM
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The writers of Murder She Wrote admitted to watering things down for Murder She Wrote.
http://neptune.spaceports.com/~queen/Other%20Media_4.html
In his article "Confessions of a Mystery Writer" (Written By, 2002) William Link says: "Thinking back, the Queen series was too complicated for its own good. I remember spending an entire afternoon with Dick trying to figure how keys on a keychain would fall into what configuration in one's pocket when placed there." And also "Our failure with Ellery Queen was our template. This photo was distributed by NBC Television in the fall of 1975 to promote the "Ellery Queen" series that lasted just one season. Jim Hutton played the famed detective. The original NBC caption sheet reads: DETECTIVE AT WORK -- Jim Hutton stars in the title role of "Ellery Queen," NBC Television Network's new suspense series about the exploits of one of America's favorite fictional detectives, to be colorcast Thursdays (9-10 p.m., NYT). Click for the TVue cover (October 26. 1975 ) based on this photo of Jim HuttonWe deliberately made the clues on 'Murder She Wrote' easier to decipher, including a very guessable murderer now and then. Part of our psychology was to reward the focused viewers because they might then be motivated to return the following week. Another unexpressed reason was that it was far easier to come up with facile clues than sweating bullets over keys in a pocket. I remember we did solve the key problem, however. The upshot was that 'Murder She Wrote' thrived for 12 seasons, Ellery Queen less than one."
Another show owing much to Ellery Queen (and Maze Agency, the Mike W. Barr series) just started
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_(TV_series)
Castle is an American comedy-drama television series starring Nathan Fillion and Stana Katic. The show, produced by ABC Studios, premiered on ABC in the United States and on 'A' in Canada on Monday, March 9, 2009, at 10:00PM Eastern/9:00PM Central.
Fillion stars as Richard Castle, a famous mystery novelist who is initially called in to help the NYPD solve a copy-cat murder based on his novels. Katic stars opposite as the young, attractive detective Kate Beckett. Following his encounter with Beckett, Castle decides to use her as the inspiration for his next book series. He uses his contacts and receives permission to accompany Beckett while investigating cases. |
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Asta Kask
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Sweden
263 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2009 : 01:00:36 AM
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I will come back... they always do. The musical was also thought passé until Oh Brother Where Art Thou sparked a renaissance. All it takes is one successful movie.
- Who is John Galt? - |
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