| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Enda80
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
101 Posts |
 Posted - 04/17/2009 : 5:50:51 PM
|
I will reproduce a long excerpt from a NY Times article.
_______________________________________________________________
Novels Haunted By Actors' Faces
Martin Arnold. New York Times. (Late Edition (East Coast)). New York, N.Y.: May 20, 1999. pg. E.3
Abstract (Summary)
Does an enduringly successful movie or television mini-series of a novel determine our perception of a compelling fictional character?
These questions are prompted by the forthcoming publication of Thomas Harris's ''Hannibal'' (Delacorte Press) and Martin Cruz Smith's just-published ''Havana Bay'' (Random House) in which the ever complex and evolving Russian detective Arkady Renko from ''Gorky Park'' returns for the fourth time.
Lecter, in all his evilness, has become almost a cult figure, and to his fans the idea of anyone but Mr. Hopkins playing him is unthinkable if not laughable. Such actor-character identification is not uncommon. To many James Bond movie addicts there was only Sean Connery. Nonetheless, all the post-Connery Bond movies succeeded, probably because Bond, unlike Lecter and Renko and Smiley [George Smiley, from Le Carre's restrained, pensive, morally ambiguous
novels], is a cartoon character.
____________________________________________________________________
(Yes, I know that the author of this article made a mistake unless he intended the term "cartoon character" in a pejorative sense. Let us pretend that did not happen.)
http://Jabootu.net/?p=1881
"Doctor Who and Batman and James Bond have been played by a zillion different actors, and they are still going strong.
[Toby Maguire, in contrast, tried to play hardball with Spider-Man and nearly got canned before realizing his peril. In that case, the character of Spider-Man was much bigger than the star playing him, and this is more often the case than not.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
For the moment, I will use the term "cartoon character" that the NY Times writer did, to refer to any adventure film whose films do not get rated R. (Many people think PG or PG-13 films get "kiddie" that way.) Therefore, under this liberal meaning of the word "cartoon character", any PG-13 adventure hero, counts as a "cartoon character", whether they actually debuted in comics trips, comic books, animation, etc.
Therefore, Superman, the Batman, the Doctor, Tarzan and numerous others are all "cartoon characters". They have all gotten recast over the years. Now, can anyone think of any R-rated adventure movie characters who have gotten recast?
Before you say Shaft, he does not count. Samuel L. Jackson played the clearly explained nephew of the 1970's Shaft, who appeared in the 2000 Shaft film in a cameo, played by Richard Roundtree.
So, looking at some R-rated adventure film series of the 1970's and 1980's (I could not think of too many R-rated adventure film series to start in the 1990's):
First Blood/Rambo: Only ever played by Stallone
Lethal Weapon: only Gibson and Glover
Mad Max: only Gibson (third one got a PG-13, of course)
Harry Callahan: only Eastwood
Death Wish/Paul Kersey: only Charles Bronson (some talk of a remake)
Missing in Action/Braddock: only Chuck Norris
So, it seems to me that R-rated adventure film character may prove harder to recast than "cartoon characters". Does a closer identification with the performer occur? Notice that, except for Death Wish, I have heard no stirrings of a remake of any of the above properties. |
|
|
Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2287 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2009 : 08:32:09 AM
|
Interesting...
This reminds me of the problim Comic Book artists have with "video first' titles. They have to catch the look of the actors playing the characters, if they want to be taken seriously. Kirk, Luke Skywalker, Spock, Ect.
R rated material...Hummm...
Might have something there. Maybe the 'serious' tone demands more continuity?
Marvin the Paranoid Android to Buzz Lightyear "Too infinity and beyond-i've been there, its rubbish!"
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KODT
|
Edited by - Flangepart on 04/18/2009 08:32:38 AM |
 |
|
|
Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2009 : 3:14:42 PM
|
The interesting thing about Hannibal Lecter for me is that I don't see Anthony Hopkins- I see Brian Cox from Manhunter. Same idea though.
Apart from how the problem affects new attempts at writing a character, I certainly find it something of a, shall we say, taint when I read older books that are adapted to film. As much as I love the LOTR movies I also sort of curse them for this very reason. I'll never see those characters in my mind as anyone else than those in the movies. The movies corrupt my imagination Luckily, I like the casting so much (apart from Arwen- Grrr!!) that I don't really mind. Oddly, I don't see the places and settings of the films when I read the books though- those remain the same as I always imagined them.
---------------------------------------
I sleep now!! |
Edited by - Sardu on 04/18/2009 3:17:11 PM |
|
|
|
Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2009 : 3:21:08 PM
|
Strictly speaking when different actors play the Doctor they are not all playing the exact same character as the character has been written in a way to accomodate/exploit the fact that different actors will be playing the role and so with each transformation the character will change to adapt to the new actor and this tranformation will be acknowledged within the story itself. This is different than, say, James Bond where throughout the film series he is always the same exact person and no differences in appearance or behavior from previouse films will be acknowledged in the story itself.
"I am Temujin ... Barbarian ... I fight! I love! I conquer ... like a Barbarian!" |
|
|
|
BT
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
167 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 08:17:49 AM
|
I can't believe you didn't include John McClane in your 80's list.
As far as your question goes, I'm not sure where these guys come down on the adventure film/cartoon character side of things, but:
"Darkman" was R rated, came out in the 90's, and was recast.
"Robocop", same thing (but came out in the 80's), but somewhat of a cheat, since the character is in "costume" most of the time.
on the other hand, The Transporter series started out pg-13, and has not changed leads (yet), I have no idea how to categorize the various "punisher" movies, and Snake Plisskin was always Kurt Russell. |
|
|
|
Enda80
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
101 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 5:01:35 PM
|
I just remembered Darkman.
Robocop went PG-13 for part three, where got recast, therefore he turned into a "cartoon character".
Die Hard adapted Nothings Last Forever, written by Roderick Thorp as a sequel to The Detective, which got filmed with Frank Sinatra. However, Die Hard did not get made as a sequel to the movie version of The Detective and they changed the name of the character from Joe Leland to John McClane (just as Death Sentence did not get filmed as a sequel to Death Wish, or the various adaptations of Parker novels which have renamed him as Macklin, Porter, Walker, etc.).
The Punisher movies have all gotten R-ratings. Therefore, I will exclude him as a "cartoon character".
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/12/13/bloody-saturday/
In any event, the Punisher served as a rather obvious knock-off of Don Pendleton's Mack Bolan, the Executioner, a prose novel character debuting in 1969, so that explains the deviation from usual cliches. (Creator Gerry Conway also admitted a little influence from the Shadow in an article in Marvel Vision.) |
|
|
|
Enda80
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
101 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 5:23:15 PM
|
| Also, another R-rated series that recast the lead; Avenging Angel. Nobody played the Angel twice. |
|
|
|
Enda80
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
101 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 5:25:37 PM
|
Also, another R-rated series that recast the lead; Avenging Angel. Nobody played the Angel twice.
Did the Relentless series recast the lead?
The Witchcraft series recast Will Spanner after Charles Solomon left. |
|
|
|
Enda80
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
101 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2009 : 7:29:16 PM
|
Missing In Action has a direct to DVD remake announced.
Other than that, I will note that Star Trek replacing Shatner and Nimoy would suggest, once again, the PG-13 aspect of the property made a replacement easy, since Shatner and Nimoy originated those roles (the characters debuted on TV) and played them for decades. |
|
|
|
Enda80
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
101 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2009 : 5:48:53 PM
|
| Golgo 13 had films with Takakura Ken (or Ken Takakura; sorry, the family name conventions confuse me) and Sonny Chiba. I cannot ascertain that Takakura's film received an R-rating, however. |
|
|
|
Bobby-G
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
903 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2009 : 03:00:46 AM
|
| In the WALKING TALL movies, Joe Don Baker played Buford Pusser in the first, which was rated R, then Bo Svenson played the part in PART 2 (rated PG), then again in FINAL CHAPTER (rated R). |
|
|
|
Enda80
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
101 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 10:59:21 AM
|
| The last Die Hard received a PG-13. |
|
|
|
Enda80
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
101 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2010 : 5:46:14 PM
|
| The Death-Stalker films recast the lead role, but Rick Hill returned for the last film. |
|
|
|
RVHorror
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
531 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2010 : 5:38:17 PM
|
| There seems to be a "face" component here, in addition to the rating. Lots of people have played Jason Vorhees, but since he's almost always masked that probably doesn't count. |
|
|
|
Enda80
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
101 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2010 : 5:03:47 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by RVHorror
There seems to be a "face" component here, in addition to the rating. Lots of people have played Jason Vorhees, but since he's almost always masked that probably doesn't count.
I tend to treat horror films as a bit of a different situation than adventure films, since even in the days of the Universal Monsters, the monsters had many portrayors. For example, Bela Lugosi only played Dracula twice in a film, 18 years apart, with John Carradine playing the role inbetween. (Of course, later on, Peter Cushing as Victor Frankenstein and Christopher Lee as Dracula would return to those roles at Hammer far more prolifically than anyone at Universal had.)
Regarding later prolific horror film series and recasting, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre (not that prolific admittedly), F13 and Halloween came from low budget roots, such that the need to have the murderer played by an interchangeable cast or crew member stood as paramount. The producers could not risk the "star" demanding too much anyway, given the budgets of the films. Robert Englund as Freddy Krueger deviated from this, as he consistently returned to the role, but even he almost did not return for the first sequel until director Jack Sholder intervened. (Of course, for the remake, they finally replaced Englund.)
Oddly enough, some would say that we do not have too many people today who serve as horror stars. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Easier recast a "cartoon character" than an R adv