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tam1MI
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
558 Posts |
 Posted - 08/30/2005 : 10:05:05 AM
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This is from the CHICAGO TRIBUNE, anybody else who can find a listing of the hits and flops of the past summer please post it, although I suspect they will all line up the same way.
[url]http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-0508170362aug18,1,6875525.story?page=3&coll=chi-leisuretempo-hed[/url]
Cinema scorecard
Here's how summer releases have fared with audiences:
BLOCKBUSTERS
- "Star Wars: Episode III -- Revenge of the Sith"
- "War of the Worlds"
HITS
- "Batman Begins"
- "Madagascar"
- "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory"
- "Mr. & Mrs. Smith"
- "The Longest Yard"
- "Fantastic Four"
FLOPS
- "Bewitched"
- "Cinderella Man"
- "Kingdom of Heaven"
- "The Island"
SURPRISE FAVORITES
- "Wedding Crashers"
- "March of the Penguins"
George Lucas and Steven Spielberg back on top of the summer box office! Who'da thunk it?
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2005 : 11:18:49 AM
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Was WotW really a blockbuster? I would have put it in the Hits category. I think Ep. III was really the only blockbuster of the season.
I'll say that "Wedding Crashers" was a surprise hit because it was the only film in the category.
The flops were all expected as were the hits.
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
Edited by - Terrahawk on 08/30/2005 1:01:03 PM |
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RVHorror
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2005 : 2:58:28 PM
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Wouldn't "Wedding Crashers" be under the "Hits" category? Granted its success surprised everyone, but in strictly monetary terms "Surprise Favorites" doesn't really say anything.
...yes, I know you didn't name or populate the categories...
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tam1MI
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
558 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2005 : 8:23:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RVHorror
Wouldn't "Wedding Crashers" be under the "Hits" category? Granted its success surprised everyone, but in strictly monetary terms "Surprise Favorites" doesn't really say anything.
...yes, I know you didn't name or populate the categories...
I suspect they categorized it as a "Surprise Favorite" because it had better box office than expected (conventional wisdom had it tjat R-rated comedies would be marginal successes, nothing more). Also, it received overall good reviews from critics, who are notriously prone to slamming pictures that are not overtly serious or overtly quirky. |
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2005 : 8:58:55 PM
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READ THIS:
"Cost estimates do not take into account tax breaks and other production incentives that may reduce expenditures on films made outside the United States."
They based the whole thing on box-office returns. Big fat hairy deal. Why not add in concession sales too?
FANTASIA and WIZARD OF OZ lost money the first week or two they came out, does that make them "flops"?
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
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Triviachamp
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
254 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2005 : 9:02:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Greenhornet
FANTASIA and WIZARD OF OZ lost money the first week or two they came out, does that make them "flops"?
Back then there weren't any wide releases. That was an 80s contribution pioneered by Jaws and Star Wars. |
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R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2005 : 10:15:47 PM
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Doing comparisons like this always runs afoul of Hollywood's sub-Enron accounting practices. Hollywood is always so deceptive as to what it took to bring a movie to the screen that any claim that a movie is a hit - much less a "blockbuster" - has to be taken with a boulder of salt.
I was extremely dubious after reading the first couple of paragraphs. The artsy-fartsy leaden-heavy polemic Crash about Los Angeles racism that only received limited release on the coasts of the U.S. took in $53 million dollars - half as much as the number 1 film in the U.S. several weeks running Wedding Crashers? Check out the IMDB. This was released to a string of America-hating European/other foreign countries that love to see anything that makes the U.S. look like the gaggle of knuckle-dragging primitives they are convinced we are.
I think in fact that this is becoming the bottom line in Hollywood filmmaking. The domestic market is starting to become secondary to theatrical and DVD releases to the foreign market. Action or pseudo-action stuff like War of the Worlds, Fantastic Four and Batman Begins find a big audience in foreign countries because the action transcends the language barrier. That's why I question whether any of them were big hits - much less blockbusters. BB and most definitely FF didn't set the world afire. Any sequels are going to be done on the cheap with an expectation of earning back money overseas. And I don't care what they claim WotW earned. They must have shelled out at least $10 million alone on the elaborate brain-washing/kidnap scheme that centered around making Katie Holmes Tom Cruise's beard. There's no way I'm going to believe that this was a "blockbuster" in the same way Jaws and Raiders of the Lost Ark were. |
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Triviachamp
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
254 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2005 : 11:27:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by R. Dittmar
I was extremely dubious after reading the first couple of paragraphs. The artsy-fartsy leaden-heavy polemic Crash about Los Angeles racism that only received limited release on the coasts of the U.S. took in $53 million dollars - half as much as the number 1 film in the U.S. several weeks running Wedding Crashers? Check out the IMDB. This was released to a string of America-hating European/other foreign countries that love to see anything that makes the U.S. look like the gaggle of knuckle-dragging primitives they are convinced we are.
First of all I believe the Wedding Crashers made plenty more than $106 Million. Second of all it was only #1 for one week. And third of all what major film is not released in "a string of America-hating European/other foreign countries that love to see anything that makes the U.S. look like the gaggle of knuckle-dragging primitives they are convinced we are" ? Crash was a lot cheaper and more money that Stealth, The Island and XXX 2 which were all released in Middle America.
Perhaps we should dismiss the success of March of the Penguins because it is French! Or dismiss the Wedding Crashers since plays in the same areas that Dittmar condemns Crash for playing in! |
Edited by - Triviachamp on 08/30/2005 11:39:45 PM |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2005 : 01:51:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by R. Dittmar
The artsy-fartsy leaden-heavy polemic Crash about Los Angeles racism that only received limited release on the coasts of the U.S. took in $53 million dollars... This was released to a string of America-hating European/other foreign countries that love to see anything that makes the U.S. look like the gaggle of knuckle-dragging primitives they are convinced we are.
Actually, Crash did paltry business overseas: only $5 million in all foreign markets combined. That $53 million total you cited was its domestic take.
quote:
Originally posted by R. Dittmar
BB and most definitely FF didn't set the world afire. Any sequels are going to be done on the cheap with an expectation of earning back money overseas. And I don't care what they claim WotW earned. They must have shelled out at least $10 million alone on the elaborate brain-washing/kidnap scheme that centered around making Katie Holmes Tom Cruise's beard.
I still hold that overwhelmingly poorly edited action scenes were the reason Batman Begins never achieved blockbuster status. Still $365 million worldwide ain't chump change.
War of the Worlds has thus far grossed $570 million worldwide. That puts it in the blockbuster category in my book, even considering its $130 million budget.
Interesting to note that Kingdom of Heaven was a hit internationally. It might even make its money back by the time it hits video. |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2005 : 01:51:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by R. Dittmar
The artsy-fartsy leaden-heavy polemic Crash about Los Angeles racism that only received limited release on the coasts of the U.S. took in $53 million dollars... This was released to a string of America-hating European/other foreign countries that love to see anything that makes the U.S. look like the gaggle of knuckle-dragging primitives they are convinced we are.
Actually, Crash did paltry business overseas: only $5 million in all foreign markets combined. That $53 million total you cited was its domestic take.
quote:
Originally posted by R. Dittmar
BB and most definitely FF didn't set the world afire. Any sequels are going to be done on the cheap with an expectation of earning back money overseas. And I don't care what they claim WotW earned. They must have shelled out at least $10 million alone on the elaborate brain-washing/kidnap scheme that centered around making Katie Holmes Tom Cruise's beard.
I still hold that overwhelmingly poorly edited action scenes were the reason Batman Begins never achieved blockbuster status. Still $365 million worldwide ain't chump change.
War of the Worlds has thus far grossed $570 million worldwide. That puts it in the blockbuster category in my book, even considering its $130 million budget.
Interesting to note that Kingdom of Heaven was a hit internationally. It might even make its money back by the time it hits video. |
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tam1MI
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
558 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2005 : 7:25:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
Interesting to note that Kingdom of Heaven was a hit internationally. It might even make its money back by the time it hits video.
I read somewhere that THE ISLAND is also doing so well overseas that the studio is going to end up making a tidy profit on it, despite it's poor box office showing in the US. |
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2005 : 7:51:23 PM
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There was a time when you would go into a book store and read on the cove of a paperback Now A Major Motion Picture!, never Now A Low-Budget Shlock-Fest!
This is another reason why I'm a bitter old man.
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
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R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2005 : 8:20:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Triviachamp
quote:
Originally posted by R. Dittmar
I was extremely dubious after reading the first couple of paragraphs. The artsy-fartsy leaden-heavy polemic Crash about Los Angeles racism that only received limited release on the coasts of the U.S. took in $53 million dollars - half as much as the number 1 film in the U.S. several weeks running Wedding Crashers? Check out the IMDB. This was released to a string of America-hating European/other foreign countries that love to see anything that makes the U.S. look like the gaggle of knuckle-dragging primitives they are convinced we are.
First of all I believe the Wedding Crashers made plenty more than $106 Million. Second of all it was only #1 for one week. And third of all what major film is not released in "a string of America-hating European/other foreign countries that love to see anything that makes the U.S. look like the gaggle of knuckle-dragging primitives they are convinced we are" ? Crash was a lot cheaper and more money that Stealth, The Island and XXX 2 which were all released in Middle America.
Perhaps we should dismiss the success of March of the Penguins because it is French! Or dismiss the Wedding Crashers since plays in the same areas that Dittmar condemns Crash for playing in!
TC,
I deserve to eat a big fat helping of crow here, because Zombiewhacker is correct in his post below yours. Crash took in $53 million domestically and I should have checked out the Mojo before spouting off:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=crash05.htm
If there is anything that will salvage something of my original comment it is the fact that Crash was still a limited release. I'll grant it got released in a lot more theaters than I thought it had, but the very fact that the release was limited means that the studio didn't think it would have wide-ranging appeal. The fact that it had more appeal than Lion's Gate thought leaves them laughing all the way to the bank, and I say bully for them.
The fact remains, however, that releasing a film to certain markets only is a pathetic strategy on Hollywood's part. As I argued, they are already simply hoping to turn a dime or two on something like The Fantastic Four in the domestic market before making costs back overseas. A limited release strategy for a film means that they don't even think that there is much hope for revenue in the U.S. at all outside of a coastal enclave or college town.
If Crash is the big success story of the summer then Hollywood is in big trouble indeed. I can't imagine Hollywood would consider it progress if it were to turn into a supplier of boutique art-house films to New York and L.A. while dubbing all of its other output into Thai and German for export overseas. |
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mpollack
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
119 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 11:28:54 AM
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Some Articles related to determining Hit or Flop. I would particularly recommend "Hollywood's Death Spiral" and "Send in the Aliens."
http://www.slate.com/?id=3944&cp=2116708&nav=navom
(Or go to slate.com and select/search for "Hollywood Economist.")
Some short items:
- Eight countries make up 75% of foreign revenue: Britian, Germany, France, Japan, Canada, Italy, Australia, and Spain.
- U.S. Centric comedies, even those that portray Americans to match their stereotypes, usually do poorly oversees.
- The big numbers to watch in this day and age are DVD sales and TV rights numbers.
As for whether our movies send the right message, some people do question it:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/27/AR2005082700034.html
MPollack
Oh, and at sunset we invade France. Just because.
The Democrats are politicizing the end of the world. |
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tam1MI
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
558 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 9:27:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mpollack
Some Articles related to determining Hit or Flop. I would particularly recommend "Hollywood's Death Spiral" and "Send in the Aliens."
http://www.slate.com/?id=3944&cp=2116708&nav=navom
(Or go to slate.com and select/search for "Hollywood Economist.")
Some short items:
- Eight countries make up 75% of foreign revenue: Britian, Germany, France, Japan, Canada, Italy, Australia, and Spain.
- U.S. Centric comedies, even those that portray Americans to match their stereotypes, usually do poorly oversees.
- The big numbers to watch in this day and age are DVD sales and TV rights numbers.
Another interesting economic factoid that series of articles mentioned is that, thanks to sweet tax deals in countries like Germany and elsewhere overseas where they set up production offices, it is virtually impossible for studios to ever lose money on an action pic no matter how badly it flops in the US. It's literally cheaper for them to make films like THE ISLAND than it is to make films like CRASH. |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 02:12:52 AM
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| A perfect example of this is The Transporter. It was a flop domestically (a mere $25 million gross) but was shot cheaply enough that it was able to turn a tidy profit thanks to international box office and DVD sales/rentals. So much so, incredibly, that a sequel is due out shortly. |
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