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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
 Posted - 07/31/2007 : 12:51:22 PM
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Because I have a great deal of respect for the posters who visit Jabootu and there is a wide range of opinion, I thought I would pose this topic which appear on this site. [url]http://www.whatswrongwiththeworld.net/2007/07/the_right_call.html#more[/url]
The gist of topic is that it would have been wrong to shoot down the plane that was eventually crashed in PA on 9/11. Most of the posters (this is a conservative Catholic group of posters) hold the belief that because it is wrong to commit murder, killing innocent people to prevent an evil action is wrong. In effect, you can never commit an evil act to prevent another evil act. Even though I'm a Christian, I'm not impressed by the argument. Also, the discussion is often on a high philosophical level which I find to be useless. While I appreciate philosophy, I find that those who delve into for a living or a lot tend to miss the forest for the trees most of the time. So, I figured I would come to the more grounded world of Jabootu.
- While science has societal benefits, science is not a social virtue. - |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 1:01:51 PM
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You know I'm a liberal, but I would have shot down the plane. The main reasons would be a) the crew and passengers were going to die any way and b) if terrorists know suspect planes will be shot down this could lead them to change their strategy.
Don't take me wrong, I understand it is a very difficult issue. But whenever I think of it that seems like the most logical solution. And I guess that if the government had had the chance to shot down that flight they would have done it. |
Edited by - Neville on 07/31/2007 1:09:31 PM |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 1:23:01 PM
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I would have shot it down as well for the same reasons as Neville. While behaving in a purely moral way can be great in the abstract it's very difficult, perhaps impossible, to act in the real world without getting your hands a little dirty. Is it better to do absolutely nothing and maintain a kind of personal moral purity or to act and try to do some good even though to act can mean moving into moral grey areas?
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 3:22:48 PM
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Okay, I really do know how to spell philosophical.
I agree with both of you. I would have shot it down. My view is that the innocent people are in the way, not due to the good guys' actions, but due to the actions of the bad guys. Therefore, they are the ones responsible for what happens in the effort to stop them. Second, the view in question fails to recognize that sometimes there are no "good" options. I was yelling at my computer as I read some of the posts. It's incomprehensible to me that people would do nothing because of some twisted Christian morality.
- While science has societal benefits, science is not a social virtue. - |
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Ken HPoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
1530 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 6:18:29 PM
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That's not a widely recognized Christian belief; it's more Quaker-like than Catholic or Protestant. If you shoot down the plane in your role as a soldier (or something of the like), then you are acting as an instrument of the state, and not committing murder, which is a personal sin. Even on a personal level you can kill to protect yourself, or to protect other innocents. Otherwise no Christian could go to war for his country, which is not a mainstream Christian tenet.
PEGGY: I don't see how having a girl on the team would ruin it. Did a woman judge ruin the Supreme Court?
HANK: Yes, and that woman's name was Earl Warren.
--King of the Hill |
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jackspencerjr
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
262 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2007 : 6:41:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Terrahawk
It's incomprehensible to me that people would do nothing because of some twisted Christian morality.
People will use any excuse to do nothing while the teen aged girl is being raped and murdered in the alley behind their apartment building. |
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New Hinda
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Israel
469 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2007 : 06:32:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Terrahawk
While I appreciate philosophy, I find that those who delve into for a living or a lot tend to miss the forest for the trees most of the time.
Amen to that. I would have shot the plane down. We can't let terrorists get away with hiding behind innocent people. The Talmud teaches that if someone comes to slay you, slay him first. |
Edited by - New Hinda on 08/02/2007 06:35:45 AM |
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2007 : 5:38:24 PM
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Had we known what was going on in time to shoot down 93, the whole day would have turned out diffrently. But personally, I would have pulled the trigger if I were in the intercepter.
I once heard a story from World War Two where the Japanese had forced Phillipine civilians to walk in front of a platoon attacking a geurilla position. The geurillas heard the people shout "Fire! Fire!" and they did, with TEARS in their eyes.
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
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Bobby-G
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
904 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2007 : 02:21:04 AM
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A few weeks back on one of the local public stations (WYCC, run by the City Colleges of Chicago), there was fellow who'd written a book about WWII bomber pilots, and he discussed the difference between EVIL (Nazis) and Necessary Evil (Bombing cities) -- one MUST do the Necessary Evil task to prevent the bigger evil.
There is the argument that to do such "necessary evil" tasks makes one "just as bad" as the enemy, therefore we shouldn't fight back or take preemptive action (diplomacy will solve EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME!) and unfortunately there are too many people these days in positions of responsiblity who subscribe to that, and that's one of the things the terrorists and enemies of freedom count on, and one of the things that can give them motivation to fight on.
Rob |
Edited by - Bobby-G on 08/03/2007 02:22:40 AM |
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