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Citizen Carrier
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
322 Posts |
 Posted - 08/31/2007 : 11:34:09 PM
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Just watched this movie. I remain a big fan of the original John Carpenter Halloween, holding it to be far superior to most other any late 1970s and 80s horror flicks of that type. Carpenter's use of lighting, camera angles, incidental music (which he composed himself) and other aspects make it something quite unique. For example, I doubt anybody would really consider doing a remake or homage to the first Friday the 13th movie.
One thing I believe I saw in Zombie's version is the definite influence of the "torture porn" trend in horror movies today a la Saw or Hostel or even Zombie's earlier works. The victims in this new version get much screen time begging for their lives hysterically, screaming, crawling away in a futile attempt to escape as Meyers strolls behind them enjoying their suffering.
Perhaps my memory is faulty, but victims in the original died horribly...but relatively quickly. There was not so much time devoted to their misery. Meyers suprised them, stabbed them or broke their neck, and they died. Part of the "fun" was seeing all those shots where characters were talking or walking down the street and you would just barely spot Meyers in the background. In the shadows with only his mask just being barely illuminated.
A sign of the times we live in, I suppose. Dread and misery and suffering replacing the classical sense of "horror" from ages past. Horror is scary. What many movies seem to try to do today is not scare, but disturb.
Just my opinion. Still, Zombie does several homages to the Carpenter movie. He even has the 1950's song "Mr. Sandman" playing at one point, which was a nice touch.
Comparisons. Zombie spends a third of the movie delving into Meyers as a psychopathic child. This was an interesting route to take, showing us verbatim what went wrong, how, and why. I suppose I prefer the way Carpenter did it better, with Donald Pleasance dramatically explaining to anybody who will listen just how evil Meyers is with a few anecdotes of his years as his psychiatrist. Malcolm McDowell tries it once in the new movie, but it just lacks the punch of when Pleasance did it.
This is not to say I didn't enjoy the new movie. Zombie has come a LONG way from House of 1,000 Corpses. |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2007 : 11:53:14 PM
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I heard an interview with Zombie tonight where he said that he really likes to draw out the suffering in the violence in his films, to make it upsetting and unpleasant. In other words, he doesn't want anyone pumping their fists in the air and going "Yeah!" like they might for, say, a Friday the 13th film. I suppose I understand the sentiment, but I don't really want to get that upset at a film, even a violent one, I want that escapist thrill ride even when the events depicted are ostensibly awful. "Torture porn" like Saw and Hostel just don't do it for me.
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
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Citizen Carrier
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
322 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2007 : 12:23:40 AM
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Me neither. In fact, I have never watched either movie. I suppose Zombie achieved what he wanted. There were no instances in which I wanted to cheer anything.
A friend of mine wanted me to watch a video clip of some Jihadist cutting off the head of a captive westerner with a knife. I told him I didn't care to watch it and didn't understand the appeal of such a thing. He intimated that my unwillingness to watch was a type of weakness. I countered that being able to watch such a thing, indeed, to go looking for such an image and to view it with a mixture of fascination and detachment...that is a weakness. A startling one.
There is enough ugliness in the world without my going out looking for it. Or worse, going to a theater and paying for it. So no Saw or Hostel for me. No movies of people tied to a chair while somebody cuts off body parts or gouges out an eye.
Basically, when I explain to people why I don't care to watch such movies, I just tap the side of my head and say, "Why would I want stuff like that on my hard drive?" |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2007 : 07:19:14 AM
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Like a gunfight in a Leone western the drama/art/excitment is in the leadup to the shoot out rather than in the shoot out itself (which only takes a few seconds). Today a gunfight would probably be filmed in slow motion with blood spurting everywhere and the losers grimacing and all kinds of quick cuts and annoying camera angles. I suppose a similar process is underway in horror films. Maybe modern audiences prefer to be disgusted/disturbed by horror violence rather than truly frightened by it.
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 3:54:51 PM
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What a pity. I've seen Rob Zombie's previous movies and while you can object to his views on cinema he seems like a quite focused guy who knows what he wants and is no afraid of going for it. I wouldn't put him on the same league as Eli Roth or whoever made Captivity. Watching his movies I felt repulsed at the violence. Watching Hostel I felt Roth wanting me to cheer for the blood spurts.
From what I keep reading Zombie has used the same angle of his previous films on his remake of Halloween. I won't criticise the film without having watched it, but already on paper this seems like a very bad idea. Halloween, as most Carpenter's films, deal with some supernatural force (call it evil if you want) that ruptures the fabric of logic. Those who fight the force soon find out that the rules (like shooting Jason) won't work anymore.
For that to work, Jason cannot be fleshed out, explained or justified. He must be pure evil or not to be. I can't see how Zombie's approach would work in such a scenario without altering the whole story. |
Edited by - Neville on 09/02/2007 4:57:29 PM |
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hbrennan
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Philippines
1455 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 4:36:53 PM
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I think that it's time everyone admitted an obvious fact. Rob Zombie is a highly intelligent, insightful fan of the horror genre. He can also bang out a decent tune. But, hey. He is not a talented director and his movies (while having their moments) are more of a wish-fulfillment endeavor than any exercise in fine film making. Period.
"...yet it hadn't destroyed his brain."
re: Charles "The Butcher" Benton (1956)
http://www.henrybrennan.com/
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Edited by - hbrennan on 09/02/2007 5:12:29 PM |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 4:53:37 PM
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| I'd agree with that, but he seemed to have learned a lot by the time he made The Devil's rejects. House of 1000 corpses instead does feel very amateurish. |
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 6:49:49 PM
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This only feeds my bitterness. Remaking a SUCESSFUL movie is kind of like the movie-makers are admitting that they can't make a sucessful NEW movie. If they REALLY want to show how much talent they have, why not tackle a movie that FLOPPED and remake it into something better?
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
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Citizen Carrier
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
322 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 8:31:05 PM
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That is an interesting notion. The more I think about my experience with this movie, the more I'm inclined to give it the thumbs down.
Neville is right, the supernatural angle of Carpenter's original was a prime ingredient. Zombie turned Meyers into just a big, strong serial killer. I've since read some reviews of the movie on rottentomatoes. How exactly did Meyers in this movie know how to find his sister if he's not spoken for 7 years, has a fourth grade education, and couldn't have known that his sister was even in Haddonfield, much less what she looked like or where she lived?
With Carpenter, it was easy. He was Evil and he was drawn to his own relations by a supernatural blood lust. Zombie spends 45 minutes deconstructing Meyers into a common psychopath kid, but then just glosses over a detail like "How does a non-supernatural killer just happen to find the one person he wants to kill?"
I also like that in the original, Jamie Lee Curtis wasn't no punk. She responded admirably, showing the fear anybody normal would, but also getting a few shots in like our survival instincts and adrenaline glands would compell us to do.
Spoiler...
Curtis became a heroine while the Strode character in this movie was a victim from start to finish. Even when she kills Meyers in the end she looks and acts like a victim. |
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Cannon Fodder
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Australia
176 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 05:51:46 AM
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| As it was the whole angle of Laurie Strode being Michael Myers sister was not in the original Halloween being something introduced in the first of the sequels. There was no apparent connection between the two or any reason for her to be targeted specifically. I think it helped add to that feel of randomness and illogic. The idea of this relentless killer coming after you for no apparent reason worked well. The 'how did he find his sister' thing was not an issue. |
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RVHorror
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2007 : 7:01:37 PM
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GreenHornet: Hollywood used to do this. Remember the John Huston/Humphrey Bogart "Maltese Falcon"? That was the second remake, and it's the one people remember.
What I like about the Carpenter original is the fact that it's very suspenseful, with almost no blood. Carpenter had a marvelous eye for camera, sound, placement of elements and just sheer atmosphere. |
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TheFoywonder
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
833 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 04:58:28 AM
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One of my Dread Central colleagues sent me a copy of the workprint that leaked online and though it still it isn't a very good movie it so much better than the theatrical version it isn't funny. Different opening credits, scenes that are edited in a different order, a couple different death scenes, a whole bunch of scenes that include this thing called character development that the theatrical version seemed diametrically opposed to, a completely different means by which Michael escapes the asylum, and an entirely different finale that actually tries to focus on character rather than just having him smash up a house looking for Laurie. My guess after now having seen both is that this version didn't test well because it wasn't just a whole lot of mindless hyper violence like the theatrical version ended up being. Or it could be because Dimension produced the movie and they can't seem but help screwing up horror movies. How GRINDHOUSE got past them unscathed is baffling.
Another funny tidbit from one of DC cohorts. Malcolm MacDowell was scheduled to do some press for the film but cancelled it all at the last minute. The reason: hated the movie so much that he has vowed never to be associated with the horror genre ever again. Yikes!
Now Playing in Foyeurism at Foywonder.com: FOYEURISM FOR DUMMIES - Roberto Benigni's Pinnochio and Dead Silence are my puppet's this month
Plus: B-WARE THE BLOG is alive at http://www.livejournal.com/users/foywonder |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 04:36:12 AM
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| Does this mean that it's not Rob Zombie's fault after all? |
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2010 : 12:13:06 AM
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Coming in very late to this game.
I'm exhaustipated, and I hope to have a few more details in a couple of days. I decided to go ahead and watch both of Zombie's Halloween movies, more out of curiosity than anything else.
I wish I hadn't.
I hope I can bleach my brain free of any memories of these things (except maybe for Malcolm McDowell's performance in the first one). Can't have this thing dirty up the image of the original, which I saw on Halloween night and was happy to see that, yes, it is indeed one hell of a good movie that holds up even after 32 years.
The remake and its sequel combined may be worse than The Mist or The Hills Have Eyes. |
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