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R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2007 : 09:49:52 AM
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Here's an article I came across a couple of weeks ago that might be of interest in light of our zombie movie discussions below:
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-155805450.html
I can't say I agree with everything. I think the Saw movies were conceived with an entirely different idea in mind than the Hostel movies. Still it's an interesting defense of the zombie genre. |
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 1:58:02 PM
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I hate SPLATTER movies. "Jigsaw" is just another undying jerk with supernatural powers (How else did he build his torture chambers and devices when he's SUPPOSED to be half-crippled with cancer?) we are supposed to identify with because his victims are so stupid.
One reviewer rationalised the torture by saying that the victims COULD have gotten themselves out, but that's crap. For example, the woman who was put in the corset(?) device "could have just stuck her hand in a jar of SULFURIC ACID to get a key". Ever get splashed with an acid? I once got a few drops of battery acid on my hand and it HURT! So do you think you could hold and USE that key? Would it even be usable after soaking in the acid?
Screw SAW, screw HOSTEL, screw them all.
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 4:16:43 PM
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I must agree.
The cinema of cruelty stinks.
I gotta read about / see it on TV, I'm supposed to want it as part of my escape from the real world?
I don't think so.
Marvin the Paranoid Android to Buzz Lightyear "Too infinity and beyond-i've been there, its rubbish!"
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KODT
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Citizen Carrier
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
322 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 6:51:26 PM
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| Indeed. I do not watch the old black and white documentary of the Nazi death camps Night and Fog because I find cruelty entertaining. The only difference between torturn porn antagonists and the Nazis is uniformity of dress. Frankly, I am suspicious of people who do find that sort of thing entertaining. |
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thewarden
Minister of the Sacraments of Jabootu
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 11:36:43 AM
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This is the same argument as nudity is less sexy than just a hint of thigh.
I think the torture porn stuff is there because you always need to ratchet things up. But look, is it any worse than the Hershell Gordon Lewis movies? What about the Lenzi-style cannibal pics? I guess that movies like Saw, etc., are different in the sense of having a wider release, but as films there are tremendously derivative of a lot of the 1960-70s exploitation stuff.
--TW-- |
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Ken HPoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
1530 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 3:59:57 PM
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It'll be interesting to see how they can possibly rachet things up from where they are now. The only thing I can think of is explicit violence against children. These things go in waves, though, so it will probably be ten or more years before the next uptick hits.
It's not my bag (to say the least), but what I think is funny is you see the same sort of complaints from the other side. I've seen plenty of posts grinding their teeth at the idea of PG horror movies, operating under the opposite theory that unless it's gory it ain't really horror. Pretty obviously, they make plenty of horror movies for there to be room for all tastes.
PEGGY: I don't see how having a girl on the team would ruin it. Did a woman judge ruin the Supreme Court?
HANK: Yes, and that woman's name was Earl Warren.
--King of the Hill |
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R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 6:00:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by thewarden
This is the same argument as nudity is less sexy than just a hint of thigh.
I think the torture porn stuff is there because you always need to ratchet things up. But look, is it any worse than the Hershell Gordon Lewis movies? What about the Lenzi-style cannibal pics? I guess that movies like Saw, etc., are different in the sense of having a wider release, but as films there are tremendously derivative of a lot of the 1960-70s exploitation stuff.
--TW--
Warden,
Believe it or not I’m almost in complete agreement with you. The only point I’d quibble over is that Poulos is arguing that “nudity is less sexy than just a hint of thigh”. He may be rambling, but no one who is a fan of Romero’s dead movies is shy about gore – the metaphorical analogy to nudity here.
What lodged in my mind about this piece that made it memorable was the claim that “Horror flicks, in general, the most corrupt and forgettable forms of art ever devised.” Horror films are corrupt and the only things that make them defensible and memorable is cleverness. The movies you mention – the ultra-skuzzy Hershell Gordon Lewis movies in particular – are corrupt in the extreme and devoid of cleverness. It’s just not easy to defend going to see a movie solely to see people being sadistically tortured and killed. And as a horror buff myself, I’ve always found the second description to be even more telling. If a movie only exists for the gore and sadism then it ends up being completely forgettable and deserves to be tossed on the trash heap.
I think Poulos is lamenting this lack of cleverness more than the gore itself. As you say, movies like this have existed for well over 40 years at this point and these newer films aren’t really anything new. The problem in fact is that they are nothing new or clever but a slicker rehashing of all the tedious, smelly and predictable slasher films from the 80’s - the slew of which nearly buried the horror genre entirely. I can’t speak for Touristas but I actually did see Hostel and it’s pretty dire. The entire plot is – people are kidnapped, tortured and killed. The end. If anything it’s even more juvenile than the Friday the 13th flicks which, while on the whole immensely boring, occasionally showed a hint of cleverness. I do disagree with him about the Saw franchise because I do think that the movies to date have at least attempted to be more about twists and turns and surprises rather than trying to be merely gruesome but it’s not clear that imitators of these movies have understood the original intent.
quote:
Originally posted by Ken HPoJ
It's not my bag (to say the least), but what I think is funny is you see the same sort of complaints from the other side. I've seen plenty of posts grinding their teeth at the idea of PG horror movies, operating under the opposite theory that unless it's gory it ain't really horror. Pretty obviously, they make plenty of horror movies for there to be room for all tastes.
Ken,
Actually one of my favorite horror movies of all time, Tremors, might have even been rated PG rather than PG-13 at the time it was released. Heck, one of the greatest slasher films of all time -Theatre of Blood - shows up almost completely uncut on TV occasionally. I think the problem here again is that these movies too are becoming derivative and shallow. The Ring was actually quite good, but ended up being followed by a host of Japanese ghost story remakes that sapped the last drops of creativity from that sub-genre. I remember a favorite local radio host from my former haunt of St. Louis being absolutely vicious on the recent 1408 on this score. He went out of his way to see it and talked on air about how it was stuffed full of every ghost movie cliché in the book. |
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thewarden
Minister of the Sacraments of Jabootu
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 7:27:44 PM
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quote:
The only thing I can think of is explicit violence against children.
Ken... well actually I cut out a comment I had about this in the interests of avoiding any hint of politics. But since you bring it up... political correctness has made is that the only way to evoke horror is through over-the-top gore. Many, many horror and exploitation movies in the past used explicit violence against children, rape/sexual violence against women, and openly racist characters to create a sense of horror/revulsion/terror in the audience. Movies like Candy Snatchers (violence against a child), I Spit on Your Grave (explicit rape), and Fight for you Life (racist attackers) are essentially un-makeable nowadays. You can't include themes of incest -- the original Hills Have Eyes -- you can't include cruelty to animal -- endless cannibal vomitoriums. So what is left? Torture porn.
--TW-- |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 9:07:57 PM
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quote:
The only thing I can think of is explicit violence against children.
I remember watching Vampire Circus many years ago, and the scene I remember most was when the vampires hypnotized two adolescent boys, then killed them. That scene was virtually bloodless, and yet it disturbed me far more than the explicit violence that permeated the rest of the film.
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R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2007 : 5:03:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by thewarden
Movies like Candy Snatchers (violence against a child)
Warden (or any other minions in the know),
Do you know any interesting stories about this movie? It's certainly slipped under my radar but I'm no exploitation maven. A local video chain here in Philly, TLA, has an amazing selection of cult, foreign and exploitation flicks and a new DVD of this apparently has just been released. I suspect it's not something to share with the ball and chain, but I am very intrigued by the video box blurb and I'll probably pick it up to watch next weekend when she's in New York. |
Edited by - R. Dittmar on 12/08/2007 08:23:38 AM |
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