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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
 Posted - 05/18/2008 : 11:54:02 AM
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Wikipedia's narrative about the fall of prehistoric Easter Island society:
For unknown reasons, a coup by military leaders called matatoa had brought a new cult based around a previously unexceptional god Make-make. In the cult of the birdman (Rapanui: tangata manu), a competition was established in which every year a representative of each clan, chosen by the leaders, would swim across shark-infested waters to Motu Nui, a nearby islet, to search for the season's first egg laid by a manutara (sooty tern). The first swimmer to return with an egg and successfully climb back up the cliff to Orongo would be named "Birdman of the year" and secure control over distribution of the island's resources for his clan for the year. The tradition was still in existence at the time of first contact by Europeans. It ended in 1867. The militant birdman cult was largely to blame for the island's misery of the late 18th and 19th centuries. Each year's winner and his supporters short-sightedly pillaged the island after the victory. With the island's ecosystem fading, destruction of crops quickly resulted in famine, sickness and death.
In an effort to stop this, the islanders started to destroy their famous status. The hope was that this would release their gods and help with the scourge that was beginning to ravage the population.
It didn't work.
I think of this story when I think of Hollywood. There used to be many "Birdmen" of Hollywood. But now their is only a few. People aren't going to movies like they used to. And to be frank, movie quality of the last couple of years have deteriorated.
Are we seeing the last days of Hollywood?
Are we still going to have the super-movies, super-directors, and super-stars? Or is that over. Are we doomed to ceed the movies to the youtube barbarians. Cultural event movies like Rocky, Indiana Jones, and Ghostbusters are a thing of the past?
Should Hollywood now start toppling the statues?
And if you think it is, how would you write the narrative on that one?
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 12:08:16 PM
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I don't think Hollywood is in its last legs. They have suffered a severe blow in the shape of movie piracy (that, if you ask me, is the reason why numbers have been lower than say, 5-10 years ago), but nothing can beat going to the theatre as a social experience, so no matter how bad films are people will keep going to the cinema. Also notice that the suits seem to be aware of movies being somehow less attractive now that you can download them, and they have a few tricks waiting in their sleeves, such as 3D movies.
As for the fact that movie quality is deteriorating... I've been hearing that from the 80s but still don't buy it. People tend to forget bad experiences and remember the good ones, which explains that they keep saying that. They also say kids behave worse every year, and since I also have been hearing that from the 80s, if it was true they should be eating their parents alive by this time. |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 12:23:06 PM
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Hollywood as a centralized, uh, center, of movie making may be nearing the end of an era but I'd say the notion of being on its last legs is still premature. But I bet in less than 10 years, maybe even 5 the digital filmmaking revolution will be complete and competent, professional movies will be coming out made for less than $10,000 investments in cameras and computer technology. All you'll need will be actors- and maybe not even that. A lot of homemade film will be animated, and probably will make Beowulf look like it was made in the stone age. Movies will be like the music business has been for a decade now, more or less completely democratized. The down side is that, like in music, there will be a lot of garbage flooding the net and major distribution will still be tough to get (and make money with).
Also, mark my words, the communal commercial theater will be as rare and fascinating as a cultural relic as the drive-in is now. Most kids now are happy to watch a movie on a frickin' cell phone ( to quote an exasperated David Lynch). Everyone will have at least a 70" display at home and most people will have 120" + theaters. At home. No one will put up with paying for a movie experience without the comfort of the home environment, and the ability to pick any movie, pause it, stop it and pick a new one, etc.
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 1:35:32 PM
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But everything these days is either a remake or a sequal to something else. Or at best, "based on a true story."
Where are the movies that have brand new ideas? Plots and characters that come out thin air?
When are they going to hire Lee Mercer? |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 1:55:41 PM
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The cool original ideas are going to come from guys sitting in their bedrooms. Just like Sky Captaindid.
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
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Mark Hawley
Minister of the Sacraments of Jabootu
Canada
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 7:34:32 PM
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Movies are still pulling in billions so I don't think you'll be seeing the death of Hollywood anytime soon, as well as the fact that IMAX and 3-D seem to be catching on more than ever and may be Hollywood's survival card which is why many people, like James Cameron, are really trying to push that format. A top of the line High Def TV and sound system might make going to see 35mm projected film less of an occasion but IMAX 3D is a different story.
As for the films mentioned: Rocky, Ghostbusters and Indiana Jones, it's kinda sad. As what Capt. Nemo was saying, while we may see another Rocky in the future - a small, heartwarming movie that comes out of nowhere and makes a big star of someone overnight, we'll probably never see a Indiana Jones, Ghostbusters, or even Star Wars or E.T. success story again. No studio would ever bankroll a relatively large budget, effects filled film that isn't a remake, sequel, adaptation of a bestselling novel, comic book, TV show, video game, theme park ride, etc. |
Edited by - Mark Hawley on 05/18/2008 7:42:25 PM |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 9:15:25 PM
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But don't you get the feeling that something is wrong out there?
And that the higher ups don't know what to do about it?
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
Edited by - Capt. Nemo on 05/18/2008 10:13:12 PM |
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Mark Hawley
Minister of the Sacraments of Jabootu
Canada
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 10:15:33 PM
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Well definitely and that's something I was getting at in my earlier post. I think it's sad that a tailor made blockbuster from 1984 like Ghostbusters would never get made today just simply because it never existed, and proven to be successful in some pre-existing form (video game, comic book, TV show, toyline etc). In order to get a major studio film greenlit today, you pretty much have to prove that it will be successful by showing that the "property" has already been successful in some other form. I honesty don't think there's one major film that will be released this summer that doesn't fit that profile.
As for the box office, it doesn't seem to be down too much. For example, Iron Man didn't open as high as Spider-Man 3 did this time last year, but it looks as if it might finish with as much in the long run.
As for what to do about it, it seems that 3D and IMAX may be the answers in assuring people still go out to the theaters. |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 01:42:27 AM
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Big Hollywood productions are so expensive now that they have to appeal to not just an American but a world-wide lowest common denominator. And proven characters and name recognition in the form of remakes and sequels definitely seem like a safer choice to bank on for nervous studio execs. 3d is going to be the biggest factor on getting people to keep going to the theater (it'll work on me!) but they'll still have to make decent films and keep the tickets reasonably affordable.
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 01:49:17 AM
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It might be true that the studios are pulling down billions. But they are doing it with over-hyped and under-imaginative movies that come out about once a month. So at best, you're talking about 12 movies a year, that keep Hollywood afloat. And the people attached to those films will be looked up to as Gods because they keep the limos fueled and champagne flowing.
But the rule of the zero sum gain of life would dictate that many people are being left out of this success. And with the gods of Hollywood taking bigger slices of the pie, the motivation to work within the system will deteriorate.
Sooner or later, investments are going to dry up. Talent will become scarce. And the writing will be on the wall that Hollywood's grip on entertainment will be shattered.
The perch the "Birdmen" sit on will fall.
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 4:22:08 PM
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And Hollywood remakes visions of its past...kinda like an old man becomming trapped in his dreams of glory past.
Marvin the Paranoid Android to Buzz Lightyear "Too infinity and beyond-i've been there, its rubbish!"
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KODT
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 4:47:26 PM
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Another killer is the "re-imagining" of a hot property. Remember what they tried to do to Superman a couple of years ago? How about the last Nancy Drew movie? The ND fans agreed that it was a "good" movie, but it just wasn't Nancy Drew!
I'll post a review I did on another site for the Nancy Drew movie in Minions' Oppinions.
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 10:38:43 PM
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I have a completely different take on all this.
The problem here is that many of us here came of age, so to speak, in the 70s and 80s. And for that one very brief period of Hollywood history, specifically 1977-1985 give or take, filmmakers there did enjoy a rare spurt of creative activity unrivaled by any other era in movie history. Yes, this was the time period that gave us Luke Skywalker and Indiana Jones, E.T. and Axel Foley, Marty McFly and Peter Venkman. But I would argue that this was the exception, not the rule. The notion that Hollywood will only make a motion picture if it's based on "pre-sold property" has been pretty much standard operating procedure since time immemorial.
Gone With the Wind, for instance, was based on a hit novel by Margaret Mitchell. The Sound of Music was based on a hit Rodgers/Hammerstein musical (itself based on a true-life story). Dr. Zhivago was adapted from a popular novel, in this case by Boris Pasternak. Ditto The Exorcist (William Peter Blatty), The Godfather (Mario Puzo), Jaws (Peter Benchley), One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (Ken Kesey), and Ben Hur (Lew Wallace).
My Fair Lady was a remake of a movie called Pygmalion (itself adapted from a play by George Bernard Shaw). West Side Story was an adaption of a Broadway musical (itself a contemporary paraphrase of Shakespeare's "Romero & Juliet"). Lawrence of Arabia was drawn from the memoirs of T.E. Lawrence. The Best Years of Our Lives was adapted from a novel by Mackinlay Canter. Bridge on the River Kwai was based on a novel by Pierre Boulle. And The Ten Commandments? It goes without saying...
Even Irwin Allen disaster movies were hardly original efforts. Towering Inferno was lifted from a novel called "The Glass Inferno". The Poseidon Adventure was adapted from a book by Paul Gallico. (Paul Gallico, for criminy's sake.)
Mind you, I'm not tossing out these individual titles at random. Were it not for the fact that Star Wars ushered in a new era of filmmaking back in 1977, these aforementioned films, every one of them, would be the highest grossing films of all time.
[url]http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm[/url]
Further, when one considers the endless parade of Tarzan, Sherlock Holmes, Charlie Chan, Dracula, and Frankenstein films that once gushed from the Hollywood creative faucet, one is forced to question whether original thinking in Hollywood has always been more myth than reality. (Even the dreaded Bowery Boys sprang from a Broadway play by Sidney Kingsley entited "Dead End". And, yes, in case you're wondering, the original cast of the play included Leo Gorcey and Huntz Hall.)
Perhaps it would be more constructive to criticize where Tinseltown has gone begging to find new ideas these days, rather than simply knocking them for borrowing someone else's material at all. Certainly a case can be made that the distance separating the likes of Paul Gallico from Optimus Prime is considerably greater than a mere six degrees.
Even so, let's not give the Hollywood of 1977-1985 too much credit for courage under fire. Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark were studio gambits; Empire Strikes Back and Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom were not. Universal would have milked E.T. to death had Steven Spielberg not vetoed the possibility of any sequels. In fact, take Spielberg and George Lucas out of the equation and suddenly the 1977-1985 era becomes suspiciously similar to our own. Comic book to film adapatations? Up up and away. TV to film adaptations? Beam me up, Scotty. Mindless merchandising tie-ins to something other than the great American novel? The Care Bear Movie, anyone?
In sum, if Hollywood wants to raid J.K. Rowling's and J.R.R. Tolkien's vault, I say let 'em. They did it before with Ian Fleming and Alastair MacLean in years past and nobody seemed to mind.
So long as they do it right. |
Edited by - zombiewhacker on 05/20/2008 10:39:33 PM |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 06:51:10 AM
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One should also bear in mind that the Star Wars and Indiana Jones films were ultimately just lavish takes on serials from the 1930s and 40s. While the actual characters and plots were original the basic concepts were not.
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
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New Hinda
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Israel
469 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 07:26:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
I have a completely different take on all this.
Gone With the Wind, for instance, was based on a hit novel by Margaret Mitchell. The Sound of Music was based on a hit Rodgers/Hammerstein musical (itself based on a true-life story). Dr. Zhivago was adapted from a popular novel, in this case by Boris Pasternak. Ditto The Exorcist (William Peter Blatty), The Godfather (Mario Puzo), Jaws (Peter Benchley), One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (Ken Kesey), and Ben Hur (Lew Wallace).
My Fair Lady was a remake of a movie called Pygmalion (itself adapted from a play by George Bernard Shaw). West Side Story was an adaption of a Broadway musical (itself a contemporary paraphrase of Shakespeare's "Romero & Juliet"). Lawrence of Arabia was drawn from the memoirs of T.E. Lawrence. The Best Years of Our Lives was adapted from a novel by Mackinlay Canter. Bridge on the River Kwai was based on a novel by Pierre Boulle. And The Ten Commandments? It goes without saying...
Even Irwin Allen disaster movies were hardly original efforts. Towering Inferno was lifted from a novel called "The Glass Inferno". The Poseidon Adventure was adapted from a book by Paul Gallico. (Paul Gallico, for criminy's sake.)
In sum, if Hollywood wants to raid J.K. Rowling's and J.R.R. Tolkien's vault, I say let 'em. They did it before with Ian Fleming and Alastair MacLean in years past and nobody seemed to mind.
The Harry Potter and LOTR films are good, I admit. But Hollywood has, in many instances, lost its sense of what is moving or interesting about a novel, what the adaption should leave in or take out. Many recent adaptions, THE FIRST WIVES CLUB (how could they take out Annie's Down's syndrome daughter? The scene between her and the Japanese CEO who also has a Down's syndrome child? The scene between Duarto, the interior decorator, and that accountant he's having an affair with where Duarto finds his lover in the living room, late one night, crying with shame and fear? Duarto thinks the lover is going to say he has AIDS. The lover blurts out that the SEC is on his case. Duarto simply laughs and says "That's why the devil made lawyers."); THE BONFIRE OF THE VANITIES, (how could they leave out the scene between Sherman McCoy and his daughter, the night before McCoy's arrest?) were obviously adapted by people who had no idea what is moving or interesting about a novel. Many recent remakes are as lousy as a flophouse mattress. |
Edited by - New Hinda on 05/22/2008 05:44:15 AM |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 2:09:32 PM
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| Well, in the case of Bonfire of the vanities, I could believe it was written by a team of chimpanzees under the influence of every known mind altering drug ever produced. Oh, and they hadn't read the novel, only the reviews from Amazon. |
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