| Author |
 Topic  |
|
R. Dittmar
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
420 Posts |
|
|
twitterpate
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
1026 Posts |
 Posted - 02/19/2008 : 8:10:57 PM
|
I'm not sure it's possible to do a really convincing "pro-war" movie.
Now, a "war is better than turning on our bellies and hoping we don't get kicked in the guts" movie is quite possible, and a few good ones have been done. But there's a difference between "War is Hell" and an overtly "Let's Make Tracks from Irag" movie. |
 |
|
|
Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 01:46:40 AM
|
Funny, I saw the trailer and I inmediately placed the movie in the ultra-conservative, even pro-war area of the spectrum, like I did with Transformers or The Kingdom.
|
|
|
|
Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 06:27:16 AM
|
So ... Iron man goes to Afganistan (the "good war" not the "bad war" in Iraq, I think that's significant) kicks butt and then, maybe, has reservations about kicking butt. That's the only way I can reconcile the plot to an anti-war message. I seriously doubt it's going to be like a George Clooney or a Michael Moore film.
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
|
|
|
Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 07:19:10 AM
|
I doubt if it can be anti-war in the broad sense. Otherwise Iron Man will not commit violence in the final climatic battle. More likely it will be, we don't like who Iron Man is committing violence against. Therefore we will have him battle this group that we don't like.
- Si desea pulse 2 para español, encontrar un país diferente. - |
|
|
|
Ken HPoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
1530 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 07:52:32 AM
|
I still remember reading a review labeling Glory as a great anti-war film, and thinking what a complete and utter misreading of the film that was. I think the critic really loved the movie, and thus reflexively thought it must be anti-war, because she couldn't conceive of the fact that she was so moved by what was, in fact, perhaps the most forthrightly pro-war American studio film in decades.
Yes, Glory makes war look awful. But great 'pro' war films aren't rah-rah about war, and they never have been. Instead, they say that war isn't always the absolute worst option. Glory was about black men fighting for the right to go to battle in their own behalf, and being acknowledged as equals in the process, and being willing to die for that cause. If the film had been 'anti' war in the sense the critic meant, the message would have been that they died for nothing, and had made a mistake in doing so. That's the opposite of what that film was about.
As for Iron Man, Tony Stark has long repented of being an arms dealers over the years, as a result of the political climate changing since the '60s. I don't expect them to beat our heads with this stuff, though, because that's not what the film is about. Hopefully they'll be smart enough to know that popcorn movies don't need Messages. If they don't, we'll just ignore it as usual and focus on the explosions and crap.
PEGGY: I don't see how having a girl on the team would ruin it. Did a woman judge ruin the Supreme Court?
HANK: Yes, and that woman's name was Earl Warren.
--King of the Hill |
|
|
|
TimLehnerer
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 07:52:55 AM
|
| It'll be pro-blowing-stuff-up but anti-war, I bet. But if there's going to be a single realistically anti-war character in comics, Iron Man would be it--after all, if you spent years (decades?) with a chunk of shrapnel that almost killed you stuck in your heart you'd be anti-war too. Ironically, the only reason Tony Stark lives through his injuries is because he's a weapons engineer; then again, the only reason he got the injuries in the first place is because he's a weapons engineer. |
|
|
|
Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 10:11:26 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by TimLehnerer
But if there's going to be a single realistically anti-war character in comics, Iron Man would be it--after all, if you spent years (decades?) with a chunk of shrapnel that almost killed you stuck in your heart you'd be anti-war too.
Unfortunatly this example --to me-- seems selfish: "War is bad because it has hurt me personally". I have seen this sort of thing in real life where war protestors have stated that they "hated war" because THEY MIGHT be drafted or something equaly "inconvienient".
For a "pro-war" message in a movie, I suggest the scene between the Italian and the German in Sahara(1943)
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
|
|
|
Prankster
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Canada
727 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 12:15:44 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ken HPoJ
Yes, Glory makes war look awful. But great 'pro' war films aren't rah-rah about war, and they never have been. Instead, they say that war isn't always the absolute worst option.
Doesn't that indicate, though, that it's not a purely "pro-war film"? I mean, there ARE movies that make war look glorious and fun--propaganda movies, mostly--so isn't it fair to say that there's a much broader spectrum than just "pro-war" and "anti-war"?
I remember a critic postulating that you couldn't make a war movie that was truly "anti-war" because portraying it on screen made it glamorous, no matter how much you tried to downplay it. On the flip side, I think most people are well aware that a) war is bad and b) it's an unfortunate reality. It seems like the vast majority of movies take some version of this attitude, even if there's a whole range of differing viewpoints within it. Obviously there are pro- and anti-movies for specific wars, but that's a narrower argument.
---
Check out my online comics at [URL]http://www.phantasmictales.com[/URL]! |
|
|
|
Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 12:18:29 PM
|
quote:
I remember a critic postulating that you couldn't make a war movie that was truly "anti-war" because portraying it on screen made it glamorous, no matter how much you tried to downplay it
All Quiet on the Western Front was pretty bleak. I can't imagine anyone seeing that film and coming away with the idea that trench warfare was glamourous.
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
|
|
|
Ken HPoJ
Supreme Potentate
USA
1530 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 12:31:14 PM
|
"I mean, there ARE movies that make war look glorious and fun--propaganda movies, mostly--"
I honestly can't think of a single film like that. I'm not saying there aren't a few, because there have been zillions of war movies and many of them are quite obscure. But not one single one comes to mind of several dozen war films I could name off the top of my head. I can think of lots of films where it is assumed that the war portrayed is necessary, but none that make war look fun or glamorous.
PEGGY: I don't see how having a girl on the team would ruin it. Did a woman judge ruin the Supreme Court?
HANK: Yes, and that woman's name was Earl Warren.
--King of the Hill |
|
|
|
Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 1:05:33 PM
|
The whole "war is fun and adventure" thing died with the First World War. Even the most propagandistic war films that I've seen have been about duty and sacrifice rather than about having an adventure.
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp |
|
|
|
Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 3:19:22 PM
|
| Except maybe Stealth, but how could anybody take THAT seriously? |
|
|
|
Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 4:32:35 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ericb
The whole "war is fun and adventure" thing died with the First World War. Even the most propagandistic war films that I've seen have been about duty and sacrifice rather than about having an adventure.
"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp
Well put.
Such films are less 'pro' war, then 'accept war'. Hummm...
Nevill, are there many Spanish films about the your nations civil war of the 20's ? Now do your folks deal with that part of their history?
Marvin the Paranoid Android to Buzz Lightyear "Too infinity and beyond-i've been there, its rubbish!"
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KODT
|
|
|
|
Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 8:01:49 PM
|
Flangepart
I have a two-tape set about the Spannish Civil War, it's a well done documenatry!
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
|
|
|
Maxtype
Minister of the Sacraments of Jabootu
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 8:25:12 PM
|
Even The Green Berets which seems to be reviled(I love it,though) isn't so much "The War is a great thing",but more:"If we don't fight this here and now,we might be sorry later".
This final mission will decide the fate of the human race.This is Operation:Final War |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Forum Locked
Topic Locked