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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
 Posted - 12/09/2008 : 09:28:23 AM
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I love movies about the WWII era and I like war movies in general. I've also enjoyed, for lack of a better term, movies that dealt with the Holocaust. But it's time to stop making movies about the Jews and the Holocaust. There are six films out or due out before the end of the year that deal with Nazis, Jews, and/or the Holocaust. It's too many. Since the 90's, three films dealing with the Holocaust have won Oscars. There were a slew of TV movies and mini-series in the 70's and 80's. Holocaust was the most notable.
Let's face it, there are a couple of reasons why there is a continuing obsession with the Holocaust. I'll say it, the first is because most of the movers and shakers in Hollywood are Jewish. As such this is a personal issue with them and so it tends to get regurgitated time after time. The second reason is that the multicultural viewpoint of Hollywood makes it almost impossible for them to look at any other similar situation. Want to talk about the Turks slaughtering Armenians in the early 1900's, don't think we can do that. We'll offend Turks and Muslims. How about the Japanese treatment of the Chinese in WWII? Nope, we were worried about how they would view the Micheal Bay Pearl Harbor movie. We definitely do not want to offend them in other ways. How about Stalin starving millions of Ukrainians? What Communism was bad? Simply stated, these two factors leave one bad guy for Hollywood, white, Western European Nazis* and to consistently return to one aspect of that era.
The problem with this is that in the end the constant repetition is self defeating. It deadens the effect and starts to irritate people.
* BTW, this is why Godwin's Law is not really useful. About the only group anyone agrees on as being evil is the Nazis. Mention the Japanese militarists in WWII and you are a xenophobe. Mention Islam and you are some sort of intolerant fool. Really, Godwin's Law highlights the point that post-modernism has robbed us of the ability to argue along moral absolutes and has left us, well, the Nazis.
{Fixed my stupidity in incorrectly naming Godwin's Law. Thanks for the catch Mr. Diehl}
I summon Bigger Fish! |
Edited by - Terrahawk on 12/09/2008 2:06:52 PM
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CDiehl
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 10:44:53 AM
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I would have assumed the reason so many movies are made about the Holocaust is that it's a very cheap, easy source of pathos. Just about every trope of movies like this serves to punch an audience's emotional buttons. More importantly, they punch Oscar voters' emotional buttons, as movies like this, and those set during the civil rights movement, are prime awards fodder.
Also, it's called Godwin's Law, and the idea is supposed to be that comparing someone with whom you disagree to a Nazi is a cheap tactic which should be avoided. Sadly, it's been mutated into outlawing through ostracism any comparison to the Nazis, even if it's accurate.
You know Grand Funk, don't you? The wild, shirtless lyrics of Mark Farner? The bong-rattling bass of Mel Schacher? The ... adequate drumwork of Don Brewer? |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 11:58:58 AM
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No one's made a decent World War One movie in quite a while. Maybe with the 100th anniversary on the horizon someone will take a shot.
"I am Temujin ... Barbarian ... I fight! I love! I conquer ... like a Barbarian!" |
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RossM
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 12:18:15 PM
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| I think that one reason that the first war has such a dearth of movies is that no one these days really understands it. La grand Illusion was made while people still had vivid memories of the war. Who was fighting whom and why. If the war was about Serbian nationalism and Russian support what were the Germans doing at the Marne in France? What were their aims? These are very complex questions that even the very best historians are grappling with. Boiling it down to a movie would simply not be financially successful as people would have noting to grip on. The Nazis were fighting a war of racial annihilation. Its easy to grasp. |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 12:26:39 PM
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You could make a movie on the just the soldiers lives. You don't really need to get into overlying the politics to appreciate the stories of heroism and tragedy that took place on the battlefields. Not every war movie needs villains.
"I am Temujin ... Barbarian ... I fight! I love! I conquer ... like a Barbarian!" |
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zombiewhacker
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1475 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 7:25:09 PM
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| Gallipoli was about WW1 and near as I could tell the villains were made out to be the British military commander themselves. |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2008 : 10:59:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ericb
You could make a movie on the just the soldiers lives. You don't really need to get into overlying the politics to appreciate the stories of heroism and tragedy that took place on the battlefields. Not every war movie needs villains.
Hummm...
That might be arguable.
Who the viewer identifys with, will determin how they react.
The German army in WW2, had great courage as warriors, as did the Japanese and even some Italian units ( Particulary the fighter pilots)
But what they did, to combatants and civilians and why they fought, does matter.
Ask an elderly Chinese how they feel about Japan, and they have may have a very harsh memory.
Motivation and methodology do matter.
So the greater question I think is...who determins the 'Good Guys' from the 'Bad Guys?'
There are a lot of unrepenant nazi's vets still around in germany. They lost, but do not think they were wrong. Same with Japan. You can sence the nationalisim in Japanese cinema, as you can else where.
We all think 'we' are just fine, its those 'other people' who have the problims...
So...just how does one determin whos objectivly right or wrong?
The comman human aspects of combat are easily understandable. Pain, terror, loss, the whole gamet of emotion.
The motivations are more complex...but they have to be concitered.
Marvin the Paranoid Android to Buzz Lightyear "Too infinity and beyond-i've been there, its rubbish!"
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KODT
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Edited by - Flangepart on 12/10/2008 11:04:11 AM |
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2008 : 11:18:04 AM
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Flange, it wasn't clear in my post but I was referring to World War One not World War Two. While the Imperial Germans certainly weren't saints they were nowhere near as nasty as the Nazis or Fascists (or our Communist "allies" for that matter)of World War Two. Though it might not get much of an audience I think a good WW1 movie about soldiers' lives in WW1 would be really interesting. There woudn't be a need to go into the reasons for the war, and frankly I doubt most people involved in WW1, even the leaders, knew what the hell is was really about anyway.
"I am Temujin ... Barbarian ... I fight! I love! I conquer ... like a Barbarian!" |
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New Hinda
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Israel
469 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 12:20:20 AM
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| World War I was the background for one good "Masterpiece Theatre" series, "Testament of Youth." |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 03:11:26 AM
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| And IMHO the best war movieever, Lewis Milestone's All quiet on the western front. |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 11:10:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ericb
Flange, it wasn't clear in my post but I was referring to World War One not World War Two. While the Imperial Germans certainly weren't saints they were nowhere near as nasty as the Nazis or Fascists (or our Communist "allies" for that matter)of World War Two. Though it might not get much of an audience I think a good WW1 movie about soldiers' lives in WW1 would be really interesting. There woudn't be a need to go into the reasons for the war, and frankly I doubt most people involved in WW1, even the leaders, knew what the hell is was really about anyway.
"I am Temujin ... Barbarian ... I fight! I love! I conquer ... like a Barbarian!"
Hummm...diden't ALL QUIET ION THE WESTERN FRONT cover that pretty well?
As regards the WW1 fall into war, I can see your point. Still, the confused nature od the decision makeing process could add to the story.
Marvin the Paranoid Android to Buzz Lightyear "Too infinity and beyond-i've been there, its rubbish!"
"Hoody Hoo, i waste 'em with my cross bow!" Bob Herzog- KODT
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 12:32:41 PM
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Hummm...diden't ALL QUIET ION THE WESTERN FRONT cover that pretty well?
Well, yeah, but you can have more than one good film about WW1. I was mainly saying that it's still good subject and with the better technology we have now a new WW1 film would be welcome, at least from me. A&E made a movie about the Lost Battallion not so long ago but it wasn't very good and was chock full of historical errors. It's an interesting subject and I just think that it has been neglected.
"I am Temujin ... Barbarian ... I fight! I love! I conquer ... like a Barbarian!" |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 4:56:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ericb
A&E made a movie about the Lost Battallion not so long ago but it wasn't very good and was chock full of historical errors. It's an interesting subject and I just think that it has been neglected.
Are you talking about that TV movie helmed by Russell Mulcahy? It was crap.
I'm more or less following the thread, and I agree with certain things, like that the Holocaust shold stay out of movies for a while and that there are too many WWII movies around, but somehow I don't think more WWI movies are the solution. That war is just too long ago for the audiences to relate, and as people have noted is a too complex conflict to explore in a popcorn movie.
I don't know... maybe more Korea movies would do the trick, because Vietnam has also been done to death. And there's always the two Persian Gulf Wars. |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 8:45:01 PM
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"The Lost Battalion" was weak. One problem was that they decided they needed to look like "Saving Private Ryan" but in WWI. But, I think A&E thought they could pull a war movie off after doing a decent job with "The Crossing."
The Gulf wars won't fly for separate reasons. The first war was a blow out. You could do a small personal level film but that's it. The second war is still going on and Hollywood isn't about to offer anything remotely positive for consumption. That leaves the endless string of failed protest films.
I think MASH ruined the Korean war for me. Alan Alda keeps showing up. :-)
I always thought a series of smaller Civil War films would do well. There are a lot of good stories to mine.
The problem with WWI is that the conflict was completely confused as to the reason and land warfare was pretty static. You don't have the movement that WWII films can create. Aviation films seem to be the way to go with WWI. Of course "Flyboys" doesn't prove that.
I summon Bigger Fish! |
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Neville
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Spain
1590 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2008 : 03:16:24 AM
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I'd say the way to go is to develop good small, if possible character driven stories and leave the war as a mere background. I saw a couple of made for TV westerns that use the American Civil War as a backdrop, The killing box and The colt and liked them both, specially the latest.
And you'd think there wasn't much left to tell about the ACW after Gettysburg and Gods and generals. |
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niccolom
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
Canada
118 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2008 : 09:24:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ericb
No one's made a decent World War One movie in quite a while. Maybe with the 100th anniversary on the horizon someone will take a shot.
"I am Temujin ... Barbarian ... I fight! I love! I conquer ... like a Barbarian!"
Actually, there is a new WWI movie out called Passchendaele starring Paul Gross who also directed and financed the movie. The movie deals with the title battle from a Canadian standpoint. Interesting like Gallipoli it also portrays the British officer corps as a bunch of idiots. Haven't seen the movie yet, because they stuck a love story right in the middle. However, apparently, the beginning and ending are supposed to be pretty good. The movie got mixed reviews up here in Canada. Don't know if its been released stateside or in Europe yet.
"When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez, aka "Tuco," aka "the Rat," aka "Ugly," aka "il Cattivo" |
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