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tam1MI
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
558 Posts |
 Posted - 11/12/2005 : 11:05:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
quote:
Originally posted by tam1MI
I think the Unindicted Co-Conspirator in the box office malaise is the sucky economy... Money that might have gone for a movie is going into gas tanks and to pay bills instead. Its that simple.
The economic picture was much bleaker during the early part of the decade yet this reality was not reflected in box office take.
[url]http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Years/2004/top-grossing[/url]
[url]http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Years/2003/top-grossing[/url]
[url]http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Years/2002/top-grossing[/url]
[url]http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Years/2001/top-grossing[/url]
quote:
Originally posted by R. Dittmar
I'm not sure that its the politics of the stars so much as the overt display of said politics.
I was responding to the City Journal article linked at the top of this thread, which stated:
"But guess what: ever more Americans are shunning Hollywood’s wares—and disgust with Left Coast politics, both on and off screen (emphasis mine), clearly plays a part."
and
“'You can date the recent box-office decline from the end of the summer last year, with the intensification of the presidential campaign,' notes conservative film critic and talk-radio host Michael Medved. 'It wasn’t just Hollywood’s hostility toward President Bush; it was the naked, raw partisanship.'”
Yeah, 8 Mile really took it on the chin at the box office, didn't it? Serves Eminem right for campaigning against Bush.
quote:
Originally posted by The Foywonder
If Medved really did use MR. & MRS. SMITH as an example then he had completely lost his mind because its one of the highest grossing films of the year making nearly $200 million.
Well, remember Medved is the ying-yang who also insists Pearl Harbor was a box office flop, so that's par for the course.
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Originally posted by Capt. Nemo
The example I will site is Steven Speilberg's Duel. Speilberg said that, when the film was released in Europe, foriegn critics thought he was making a statement about the working class(i.e. the Truck) verses the upper class(i.e. Dennis Weaver).
I'm reminded of a anecdote involving director Irvin Kershner and a Russian filmmaker during the Cold War (quoting from the book "Reel Power" by Mark Witlak.)
Most Hollywood films do not appear to have any political point of view. Of course, what is political is in the eye of the beholder...
(Kershner) recalls being told by a Russian filmmaker that American films were highly political.
The Russian said, "You go see an ordinary (American) film and the telephone rings and somebody runs over and there is a telephone in the middle of the living room. And then you cut and the kid is talking on a telephone in his bedroom. In the hall you see... (another) telephone, and there is one in the kitchen. In Russia if you have a telephone it is in the closet so you can go in and close the door so nobody can hear you.
"Then you open a refrigerator in a film and it is stocked full of food and people are taking things out, spilling things, and grabbing food and running out. They are treating food as if it was nothing. My God that is propaganda. I'll bet that many of the people around the world are looking at that and not even seeing the picture. They are watching the food in the refrigerator... You have a scene in a supermarket and the audience's eyes are bulging out. Cars are smashed up... We wait five years to get a car... Here you have kids driving huge cars. And we say to ourselves, 'How much gasoline does that car take to go a mile?' This is political."
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tam1MI
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
558 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2005 : 11:12:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by zombiewhacker
quote:
Originally posted by tam1MI
I think the Unindicted Co-Conspirator in the box office malaise is the sucky economy... Money that might have gone for a movie is going into gas tanks and to pay bills instead. Its that simple.
The economic picture was much bleaker during the early part of the decade yet this reality was not reflected in box office take.
But movies were cheaper then. Not to mention you weren't paying $10 for a popcorn and soda pop. Add in the cost of gas, babysitter, other incidentals - and what a family of four saves by not going to the movies should just about cover the increased cost of living.
The underlying theme that should be addressed here is how the studios and theatres are managing to price themselves right out of the market... |
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Triviachamp
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
254 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2005 : 12:32:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tam1MI
The underlying theme that should be addressed here is how the studios and theatres are managing to price themselves right out of the market...
Don't forget the huge budgets that all of these films need. I mean how come practically every movie costs at least $80 Million (that is "low budget" these days) even when it isn't CGI heavy? |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2005 : 6:48:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Triviachamp
quote:
Originally posted by tam1MI
The underlying theme that should be addressed here is how the studios and theatres are managing to price themselves right out of the market...
Don't forget the huge budgets that all of these films need. I mean how come practically every movie costs at least $80 Million (that is "low budget" these days) even when it isn't CGI heavy?
Also, don't forget to add that a lot of films are shot overseas at cheaper locations. Where is all of the money going? Plus you have to add in advertising that also takes out a chunk.
I don't think there is one answer to the problem, it's more a multitude of issues that need addressed like:
1. Cost
2. Story quality
3. Politics
Number three is tricky because it doesn't necessarily ruin all films. But, the most recent example I can think of that it did ruin is "Kingdom of Heaven." I think the PC look at the Crusades persuaded a large number of people to stay away when for a film that large, you need a wider audience. So, M&M's "8-Mile" can succeed as a smaller film. You make it $150 million blockbuster type film and at best it's going to break even. Niche marketing and timing can overcome political leanings in a film. In some cases, they'll make a film more profitable. I don't think there is a hard rule you can follow.
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
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Triviachamp
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
254 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2005 : 7:13:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Terrahawk
Plus you have to add in advertising that also takes out a chunk.
The Advertising budget is separate.
quote:
I think the PC look at the Crusades persuaded a large number of people to stay away when for a film that large, you need a wider audience. So, M&M's "8-Mile" can succeed as a smaller film. You make it $150 million blockbuster type film and at best it's going to break even. Niche marketing and timing can overcome political leanings in a film. In some cases, they'll make a film more profitable. I don't think there is a hard rule you can follow.
Must have hurt The Alamo as well. |
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UnknownSubject
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Australia
212 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 01:13:12 AM
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I don't necessarily think the PC version of the Crusades in "Kingdom of Heaven" hurt the movie half as much as it being yet another historical sword-and-pitched-battle epic in a long line of them. It seemed to offer nothing that audiences wouldn't have tired of by the time they'd seen "Troy", or maybe "Alexander".
I think politics in films can definitely work to a movies advantage if it can generate enough interest / controversy to overcome the issue of a certain proportion of the potential audience being turned off by it. However, where a film isn't interesting enough to warrant interest / controversy, well, the studio had better hope that DVD sales are good.
Spandex Cinema
http://sc.thebeholder.org
Latest Review - "Nick Fury: Agent of SHIELD" |
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KurtVon
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 10:17:25 AM
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I was at a SMPTE meeting last week for digital cinema. informative, but one of the funny things was when a presenter explaining the resolution choices in DC (along with the well-thought-out colorspace issues) was interrupted by a representative of the studios.
"Isn't this resolution choice too close to the level of a home theater? Some people believe that the improvements in home theater bringing it closer to the quality of a professional theater have been a reason for the decline in attendance."
Quick as light, he replied, "Well, some of us belive the decline in attendance is due to the quality of the features, not the presentation."
Got a nice laugh from the crowd.
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dconner
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 11:05:05 AM
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Medved (after his "reinvention" as pundit/moralizer) seems to me the classic example of "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
Some of the silliest stuff ever written about movies comes from looking at them exclusively through a political prism (whether left, right, or other.) It's sometimes interesting or useful to look at, but "pundit" types generally look *only* at that angle, and end up looking ridiculous by stretching things.
For instance, I stumbled across Medved on the radio once back when the original Star Wars movies were being rereleased in Special Edition, and making tons of money at the box office. Medved's take was basically "These movies are making money because the people are crying out for family-friendly entertainment, and rejecting the rampant sex and violence Hollywood insists on." And I was like, "No, you idiot, they're making money because they're freakin' Star Wars! |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 11:08:56 AM
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DConner : It could also be, your both right.
Its Star Wars AND its concitered a family movie.
Most of my friends conciter them so,though some might argue otherwise.
"Reality is arguable...lunch time is not." H. Flangepart.
"One Weekend a month my ass!" Crow- The Beginning of the End.
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 1:46:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by UnknownSubject
I don't necessarily think the PC version of the Crusades in "Kingdom of Heaven" hurt the movie half as much as it being yet another historical sword-and-pitched-battle epic in a long line of them. It seemed to offer nothing that audiences wouldn't have tired of by the time they'd seen "Troy", or maybe "Alexander".
I think politics in films can definitely work to a movies advantage if it can generate enough interest / controversy to overcome the issue of a certain proportion of the potential audience being turned off by it. However, where a film isn't interesting enough to warrant interest / controversy, well, the studio had better hope that DVD sales are good.
I'll agree with you that previous films of the same type did not do well. Which is why I agree that you can't usually take one factor and say that is why the film failed. However, I don't think you can just discount (I know you didn't, but I'm just making the point) the politics of most films. I stay away from a lot of films just because they look to have the cookie cutter evil captialist, Christian, etc. plot. Some political balance would definitely help Hollywood. Imagine the surprise some people would get out of a movie if the environmentalist was the evil doer. Now, if it was that way every time, it would be just as bad as today.
Did anyone see Alexander? The interesting thing with it though is that they tried to gin up controversy once it was apparent the film was going to stink. Even that did not help it.
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 9:01:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Terrahawk
Did anyone see Alexander? The interesting thing with it though is that they tried to gin up controversy once it was apparent the film was going to stink. Even that did not help it.
I just saw the advertisement trailer on some other DVD. Even the trailer looks dreadful.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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tam1MI
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
558 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2005 : 09:18:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Terrahawk
[quote]Originally posted by UnknownSubject
I don't think you can just discount (I know you didn't, but I'm just making the point) the politics of most films. I stay away from a lot of films just because they look to have the cookie cutter evil captialist, Christian, etc. plot. Some political balance would definitely help Hollywood. Imagine the surprise some people would get out of a movie if the environmentalist was the evil doer. Now, if it was that way every time, it would be just as bad as today.
I don't think it's the "politics" per se, it's the preachiness. I think if filmmakers would just concentrate on telling a story, rather than sending a message, alot the complaints about "politically skewed movies" would go away. |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2005 : 5:00:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tam1MI
quote:
Originally posted by Terrahawk
[quote]Originally posted by UnknownSubject
I don't think you can just discount (I know you didn't, but I'm just making the point) the politics of most films. I stay away from a lot of films just because they look to have the cookie cutter evil captialist, Christian, etc. plot. Some political balance would definitely help Hollywood. Imagine the surprise some people would get out of a movie if the environmentalist was the evil doer. Now, if it was that way every time, it would be just as bad as today.
I don't think it's the "politics" per se, it's the preachiness. I think if filmmakers would just concentrate on telling a story, rather than sending a message, alot the complaints about "politically skewed movies" would go away.
I have to agree.
My friend Barb, who is blind, got to see attend a free showing of the audio described "The American President".
She tends to be conservitive ,like me, but has more "Hippie" roots then i do, so we have some differing expression of our thoughts.
Anyhoo, she did not like the movie, because she quickly caught on to the propaganda aspects of the script.
She does not like to be "preached at" by a movie. She knows when its happening, and won't take well to it, even if she may agree with the basic concept.
I can see that.
Dear Movie : I'm not that stupid. Please treat me accordingly, or its "No sequal for you!"
"Reality is arguable...lunch time is not." H. Flangepart.
"One Weekend a month my ass!" Crow- The Beginning of the End.
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2005 : 5:47:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tam1MI
quote:
Originally posted by Terrahawk
[quote]Originally posted by UnknownSubject
I don't think you can just discount (I know you didn't, but I'm just making the point) the politics of most films. I stay away from a lot of films just because they look to have the cookie cutter evil captialist, Christian, etc. plot. Some political balance would definitely help Hollywood. Imagine the surprise some people would get out of a movie if the environmentalist was the evil doer. Now, if it was that way every time, it would be just as bad as today.
I don't think it's the "politics" per se, it's the preachiness. I think if filmmakers would just concentrate on telling a story, rather than sending a message, alot the complaints about "politically skewed movies" would go away.
Amen, Tam. I've seen lots of movies that have political views opposite of my own, that I LOVED (as can be shown by some of the DVDs in my collection). First and foremost, the filmmakers wanted them to be good movies; any political message they wanted to get across would be gravy.
Get in a movie that preaches without a good story... and you get Beyond Borders. Or The Contender. Or The Life of David Gale. Ugh! |
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Desslar
Diocesan Ecclesiarch of the Sacred Order of Jabootu
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2005 : 01:36:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Terrahawk
Imagine the surprise some people would get out of a movie if the environmentalist was the evil doer.
I believe there are several films in which an environmentalist nutcase is the villain. Poison Ivy in Batman and Robin comes to mind. |
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