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Originally posted by R. Dittmar



In any case, the least I can ask my of my sectarian friends is to agree that we should not immanentize the eschaton:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanentize_the_eschaton

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Originally posted by Ericb

Alvin is the Anti-Christ.

"I reserve the right to look as well as be boring." - Robert Fripp

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Originally posted by Terrahawk


In general, Christians understand atheism far better than atheists understand Christianity or religion.

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Originally posted by Altair IV

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Originally posted by Terrahawk


In general, Christians understand atheism far better than atheists understand Christianity or religion.

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I originally intended to stay away from commenting here because I really don't like getting involved in controversial discussions, but I just can't let this one slide.

Not only is the above statement not true, the exact opposite is more often the case. I've found that atheists in general know far more about the history and philosophy of the major religions than most people who profess belief in them. Indeed, they almost have to in order to defend their position against a society that for the most part not only sees them as wrong, but often as dangerously wrong. The truth is though that a lot of atheists become so only after a long, hard process of discovery, thought, and reflection, and they often go through several religions and belief systems before finally arriving at the conclusion that there's nothing to support any of them. On the way, they're often drawn towards studies of religious history and philosophy, and make evaluations and comparisons between them. Atheism is more often a choice based on rational, informed thought than on feeling or belief; that is, it's an educated choice.

But your average secular believer often doesn't need to know much more than what they're taught in Sunday School or Synagogue or whatever. I'd say that the vast majority of Christians really know very little about their own religion outside of what the pastors tell them at the Sunday sermons, and even less about other religions. They don't really have to know, as long as they have faith. Note, I'm not saying believers are stupid or uneducated, just that there's a tendency to accept without questioning. And most of society simply accepts them as "fellow Christians" without much questioning either.

Also, atheism is so often misrepresented in normal society as a sort of "anti-religious faith", rather than the non-belief that it is, that saying that Christians understand atheism is unbelievably naive. American society in particular is very highly biased towards Christian belief and frowns upon non-religious attitudes. Atheists are often seen almost as second-class citizens, in spite of the "freedom of (and from) religion" that most people profess to support. Very often they have to hide their unbelief to avoid a backlash of words and behavior that sometimes borders on persecution. In fact, I've generally found atheists to be much more understanding and tolerant of religious belief than vice-versa, and much more likely to defend the rights of freedom of religion and freedom of speech than many of the "faithful".

(Do realize that I'm talking in general terms here. Certainly you'll find the whole gamut of belief, non-belief, anti-belief, understanding, and misunderstanding among individuals, and the more educated types on both sides are more likely to understand the opposition than the average person. As well, there are hard-core, radical atheists, just as there are radical Christians, and Muslims, and whatnot, and there are much larger, more moderate groups of each as well.)

Now, that's I'm going to say about this. Like I said, I don't want to get into any protracted debates here. I respect peoples' rights to believe what they want. I just want to set the record straight.

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Originally posted by Food

Atheism is a faith every bit as much as any religion. In the absence of any conclusive evidence that god does not exist, any certainty that god doesn't exist must therefore automatically be a matter of faith.

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