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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
 Posted - 11/20/2005 : 2:12:14 PM
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Twitter, if I recall, at one time Hollywood did indeed use the "Brand X" terrorist gimmick... and it worked. Die Hard, anyone? But these guy seem to have forgotten about that, and they've cranked the PC meter up a few notches as well.
I had a storyline in my head for a while about a guy who was led to believe he was helping to foil a right-wing terrorist plot, only to learn at the end that the "right-wing terror" story was a front for an al-Qaida operative. When, if ever, will Hollywood be brave enough to have a story like THAT? |
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UnknownSubject
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Australia
212 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2005 : 8:05:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Terrahawk
I'm not advocating violence against Muslims, but I don't think Islam and Western culture are compatible. I would prefer to stop Muslim immigration, deportation of all Muslim non-citizens, inducements for Muslims leave and go to countries where their beliefs are compatible, and a general separation between Islam and the West with limited contact.
Segregation is not an option.
It sounds easy, but is a very slippery slope, because once you've done something like this, well, perhaps all African Americans should be shipped out of the South because a lot of white people still believe in Confederate values, or perhaps all homosexuals should be shipped off to San Fransisco because that way their lifestyle won't impact on anyone else. It's an oversimplistic way of dealing with the very complex relationships between people of different value sets.
Besides, dividing the world into Us and Them has never, ever, ever had a happy resolution.
Spandex Cinema
http://sc.thebeholder.org
Latest Review - "Nick Fury: Agent of SHIELD" |
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UnknownSubject
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Australia
212 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2005 : 8:08:10 PM
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Now, my more flippant post:
Why are a radical Christian group invading a mosque to begin with? What could they hope to achieve, besides forcing Muslims to read Jack Chick tracts?
Spandex Cinema
http://sc.thebeholder.org
Latest Review - "Nick Fury: Agent of SHIELD" |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 06:55:08 AM
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US, the problem with you example is you are comparing race (a physical trait) to Islam (a belief system). Nothing inherent in race makes it difficult or impossible for people of a certain race to operate in a Western country. Following Islam on the other hand does make it difficult due to certain beliefs in the religion (role of government, women as 1/2 value as a men, etc.). For instance, would you want to allow millions of anarchists into the country? Of course you wouldn't because even if you managed to control them, the culture of the country would change so much to maintain control that it wouldn't be the same.
The second problem with your argument is that it is indeed a slippery slope argument. Obviously you are saying that we can in no way determine which types of beliefs are not compatible with Western culture. Therefore we are either stuck in the position of allowing everyone in the country (including those pesky anarchists) or we will be kicking out/denying access to everyone. You are welcome to that opinion but I believe it to be flawed.
Ubiq, yes the OT is part of the Christian religion. There are differences in the violence in the OT and the Koran. First, OT violence was limited to time and geography. In other words, the Jews were not commanded to make the entire world Jewish and today, you don't see the Jews trying to do that. Also, there are some explanations for the commanded violence, but I won't get into them. Secondly, the punishments meted out in the OT for violating the law were abrogated by NT commands (like Jesus stopping the stoning of the adultress.)
Finally, I just want to thank everyone for the civil discussion.
The ROPe gives you three options, convert, submit, or die. There is a fourth, resist. |
Edited by - Terrahawk on 11/21/2005 06:55:52 AM |
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Flangepart
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
2329 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 10:18:40 AM
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I too, provide thanks for keeping it civil.
The old Testement commands, that Came from God,to destroy other nations, were to protect Israel from the violence and corruption of the nations surrounding them. These nations had, for one thing...a habit of , as part of their religions, burning children as sacrifices to Molec, and other dieites. The God of Israel did NOT tolerate things like that.
"Cole, stop handing Dr. Doom the Keys to the Baxter building." Brent Sienna/PvP.
"One Weekend a month my ass!" Crow- The Beginning of the End.
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Tork_110
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
360 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 10:49:49 AM
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| How about sportsfan terrorism? I could see a show about a Redskins fan who finally lost it and started blowing up Norv Turner and Steve Spurrier and etc. |
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Zev
Preeminent Apostolic Prelate of the Discipleship of Jabootu
USA
182 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 1:18:25 PM
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How about NAMBLA terrorists?
"Unless you pay us 100 million dollars and legalize man-boy love, we will blow up the Superdome!"
"NAMBLAAAAAAAAA!"
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quote:
Originally posted by TheFoywonder
Now they need to make a movie where soldiers in Iraq actually find one of Saddam Hussein's secret underground chemical weapons facilities only to find it overrrun with big mutant sand spiders. And the the film will be called IRAQNID!
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 1:21:53 PM
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Neo-Confederate terrorists:
HERO: I suppose you want independance for the South?
N-C T: No! We want the "blue states" to Seceed from the union!
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
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Bobby-G
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
904 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 1:32:55 PM
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How about Soccer Hooligans?? They'd make great bad guys! Think about it: That nice suburban "Soccer Mom" and her kids are REALLY part of a secret International Hooligan Empire!!
Rob |
Edited by - Bobby-G on 11/21/2005 1:33:41 PM |
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tam1MI
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
558 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 10:28:11 PM
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Trekker terrorists.
"Put a Trek series back on the air or the St. Louis Arch bites it! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!" ;) |
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TheSentinel
Archdeacon of Jabootu
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 10:53:11 PM
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Yuo guys are all too nice about this, allow me to be less so. Hollywood will NEVER, EVER made a movie about Jewish or Black terrorists.
Christians really are the enemy of Hollywood. Think about Gibson's the Passion...cost almost nothing to make, made tons of money everywhere, and Hollywood wouldn't finance it, wouldn't distribute it, wouldn't even mention it except to slander it.
Anti Jewish? Really? Was the Last Temptation of Christ too shocking? But it would only offend Christians...and they obviously don't count.
Muslims probably scare the crap out of Hollywood. Remember "Theo van Gogh" - made a movie critical of Islam - and was killed for it. Ancient Buddist statues...destroyed. Muslims aren't multiculturalists...and if you attack them, in any way, you will absolutely pay a price.
Basically Hollywood are lefty wimps and pick on the easy target every time. |
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UnknownSubject
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Australia
212 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2005 : 12:18:50 AM
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Terrahawk - if one were also to follow the Bible in the strictest sense, you would arguably be a Christian who would not be compatible with the values of "the West". Religious freedom is automatically denied by the first commandment - "I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall have no other gods but me" - which removes any ability of "the West" to allow other religions to exist under it. Other parts of the bible can be used to justify slavery, stonings of those who break the law and potentially a lot of other things that "the West" would find repugnant. However, only the most fundamentalist Christian sees this as the way to go; most people of "the West" do not subscribe to such extreme interpretations of the Bible.
(Noted: the 10 Commandments are OT, but they are generally repeated in the NT according to http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-law.html)
In a similar fashion, a lot of Muslims in "the West" do not subscribe to the extreme interpretation of the Koran - it is the groups with fundamentalist / extremist principles that are the concern. To tar every Muslim with the same brush because al Queda considers itself a Muslim group is unfair, and would be much like using the KKK as a reference point when talking about Christians. (Also noted: I made the first mention of al Queda, not you.)
Finally, every time different cultural groups meet, the idea that "they'll never integrate because they are too different" is always raised. It was said about the Irish, about freed black slaves, about Jews, about the Japanese etc etc. The thing is, these groups did become part of "the great melting pot". Muslims are now the subject of this line of discussion due to the acts of a small minority attracting attention towards Islamic followers. Thing is, lots of Muslims have already integrated with "the West" and to paint them as being a problem because they have beliefs that are "too different" is just unfair.
(I keep referring to "the West" as such because I also don't see it as one singular pervasive culture - the US compared to Australia compared to the UK et al all have different aspects to them.)
Spandex Cinema
http://sc.thebeholder.org
Latest Review - "Nick Fury: Agent of SHIELD" |
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UnknownSubject
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Australia
212 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2005 : 12:47:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by TheSentinel
Christians really are the enemy of Hollywood. Think about Gibson's the Passion...cost almost nothing to make, made tons of money everywhere, and Hollywood wouldn't finance it, wouldn't distribute it, wouldn't even mention it except to slander it.
Actually, you could say that Mel Gibson coming to the studios saying, "I'm going to direct a film full of unknowns that shows the long and painful torture of Jesus Christ before his death. It's going to be very gruesome, so will get an R rating. Oh, and it's going to be in a dead language so people will have to read subtitles", probably didn't give them reasons to be excited by it either.
Same thing with distribution. It's an independent film and very few big studios distribute independent films. Newmarket (who typically had done foreign film releases) was the company that eventually picked up "Passion" for US release.
quote:
Anti Jewish? Really? Was the Last Temptation of Christ too shocking? But it would only offend Christians...and they obviously don't count.
Scorsese only got to make "Last Temptation" after promising a commercial film would come next (which was "Cape Fear") and was made on a low budget like "Passion" (although how much $7m in 1998 is worth now I don't know), so it's hardly like Hollywood went, "Hey, let's lay the boot into some Christians!".
The only reason "Temptation" got made was, like "Passion", because of the director's vision. In both cases, the controversy the film generated helped attract a wider audience than it probably would have done on merit alone.
Spandex Cinema
http://sc.thebeholder.org
Latest Review - "Nick Fury: Agent of SHIELD" |
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UnknownSubject
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
Australia
212 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2005 : 01:08:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tam1MI
Trekker terrorists.
"Put a Trek series back on the air or the St. Louis Arch bites it! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!" ;)
It would end like this:
Hero: Okay, you guys win...
Trekkers: Yay! New seasons of "Next Gen" for all!
Hero: There's just one thing I need to know... who is the best Starfleet captain?
Trekker 1: Kirk!
Trekker 2: Picard!
Trekker 3: Janeaway!
*Trekker 1 and 2 look at Trekker 3*
*Trekker 1 and 2 shoot Trekker 3*
Trekker 1: KIRK!!!
Trekker 2: PICARD!!!
*Trekker 1 and 2 shoot each other*
Hero: Hello, headquarters? Situation under control...
Spandex Cinema
http://sc.thebeholder.org
Latest Review - "Nick Fury: Agent of SHIELD" |
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John Nowak
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1017 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2005 : 08:41:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jedimom
I'm sorry, guys, you're missing a couple of important points in this discussion.
I'm sorry, but you're missing an important point as well:
Christian on Muslim violence is not widespread or common in the United States. Are refugees streaming North across the border? It isn't happening.
Yes, it's disturbing that people are discussing apartheid and the rest, but I think it's seriously foolish to think that people are going to change their minds over a TV show. "By golly," you seem to imagine people will think, "That fictional muslim was a very nice fellow. I guess there are muslims just like that fictional musilim." That doesn't happen.
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We've always been united in stupidity. That's why there is no hope. But, then again, when has that ever stopped us?
-- hbrennan |
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