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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
 Posted - 02/09/2008 : 10:25:59 PM
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I just finished watching Wargames on TCM. I've always enjoyed that movie and something just dawned on me, the government isn't shown as evil. Yes, it has an anti-nuclear war message but not necessarily an anti-nuke message. The computer guys aren't idiots but just your run of the mill bureaucratic computer sloggers. The FBI is shown as being a bit inept, but it's more of a misunderstanding of the teenage mind. Their interpretation of the facts isn't mind blowing stupid. It's just template thinking. Finally, the general in charge listens to advice in a logical manner and isn't a gung-ho wacko. Could someone please show this film to someone in Hollywood as an example of how to make a decent film? Today, someone would call it right-wing agitprop. :-)
- Si desea pulse 2 para español, encontrar un país diferente. - |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 10:57:29 PM
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There was one anti-nuke guy in the film. The film makers used him in a very smart way. It was the guy who refused to turn his key.
The movie very subtlely set him up as a kind of proto-hippie by having that odd conversation at the beginning. Remember his girl friend chanted over flowers. And the missle commander himself seemed to have a taste for drugs.
So you could say the movie gave the anti-war crowd some dignity too. No sermonizing. No long winded speaches. No false crisis to give there side the moral high ground.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReJ3RltihME"]Click here to see the scene.[/url]
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 11:04:39 PM
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One other thing...
Later they bring that guy back to get his reaction to what the top brass decided to do.
As they install the electric relay, he just stands there and looks incredulous. You can tell EXACTLY what he is thinking. "BAD IDEA".
Again, no beating it in the ground. Just good acting and good directing.
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 07:17:52 AM
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Yeah, you're right about that. And they give dignity to the military side in that the general isn't real keen on the idea either and still supports his launch officers. They do point out though that you have to have them follow orders when they get the order to launch. Yep, no sermonizing. It's a good film.
- Si desea pulse 2 para español, encontrar un país diferente. - |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 2:53:12 PM
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I partially take back what I said. There was a sermon. It was given by Falken when he was showing Lietman the dinosaur movie. The reason why it doesn’t grate on the nerves is because it’s a very cynical speech. He doesn’t really indict anyone. He does quip that generals think there is “acceptable losses” but the film doesn’t support that premise. Falken is just sick of the whole business of nuclear deterrence. And we can share Lietman’s frustration because Falken won’t do what needs to be done because he’s so bitter.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrM8_LhWnxg"]Click Here to see that Speech[/url]
Bad anti-nuclear films fall in to two categories. The first set are films that try to recruit you in to some movement. Where the hero is anti-nuke and everyone else is either malevolent or apathetic to their cause. The two films that come to mind are Superman: The Quest for Peace or [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Bulletin"]Special Bulletin[/url]. The second set are films that are designed to scare you. They show the carnage and the aftermath of nuclear war. Those films turn one off because of how manipulative they can be. Films that do this are On the Beach, Threads, and The Day After.
Warning: Not for people with sensitive constitutions
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv_OJBBaF48"]The begining of the remake of On The Beach[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bINDXJV8zcE"]Click here to see the new twist they put on the "coke bottle sequence."[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRle2RhLOHI"]Here's the obligatory "stop the lunacy" sequence.[/url](falls flat)
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VG2aJyIFrA"]Here's the destruction sequence in The Day After.[/url](very graphic)
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z52dWAY_J_E"]Here's the one in Threads[/url](very graphic)
By the way, what did the producers of Invisible Man do to the top brass at sci-fi to have their commerical air right after the destruction sequence?
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 5:07:18 PM
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Actually, I always took his speech as more of a result of the death of his son. He has nothing to live for and sees no reason for humanity to survive. And no one at the end of the film is claiming we need to just dismantle our nukes right now regardless of what the Ruskies do.
- Si desea pulse 2 para español, encontrar un país diferente. - |
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Citizen Carrier
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
322 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 7:54:18 PM
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In retrospect, I suppose I would have to call it a fairly balanced film.
The message, what the computer finally "learns", is that nuclear war is unwinnable. Of course, I don't remember anybody who didn't understand that. The whole idea of massive nuclear armaments was deterrent. And it worked. We never had a nuclear war. My only gripe would be that the realization that nuclear war isn't winnable was treated as some kind of earth-shaking, cathartic discovery that nobody understood until this plucky teenager and jaded computer scientist demonstrated it.
I remember watching that in the theater with my mother when I was in elementary school. Mom was part of the anti-nuke crowd and went to meetings with a local protest group. She doesn't believe that stuff anymore, realizing that nuclear weapons preserved Western Civilization.
Now, do you suppose they'll ever make a film about the unilateral disarmament crowd and how they were often dupes (willing or otherwise) of the Soviet Union's attempts to influence western European politics?
I expect production of that film to begin sometime after George Clooney completes the bio-pic of Whittaker Chambers exposing Roosevelt aide Alger Hiss as a willing and eager Soviet spy.
See you at the movies!
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Ericb
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
648 Posts |
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Capt. Nemo
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
630 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 11:14:05 AM
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I couldn't help but notice the submarine has the number 571.
Is this Mathew MacConghey's boat?
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"Ward, the Beaver blew up the 7-11 again."
"I'll have a talk with him Dear" |
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BradH812
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 11:40:13 AM
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Someone should do a "right way / wrong way" lesson in screenwriting class. The wrong-way movie could be Amazing Grace and Chuck, and the right-way movie could be Wargames.
In AGAC, Chuck, the main character, is on a school trip to a missile silo(!) The military guy leading the school field trip tells us, very heavy-handedly, how the missile silo technicians carry sidearms in case they get the launch order and their partner isn't willing to go ahead with it. (This was the only scene in the movie I actually saw. It was enough to make me change the channel; everything I've read about the movie since tells me I was right.)
Wargames shows it happening. The two techs get the launch order. The older one (nice variation, I thought) starts trying to contact someone on the outside to confirm this, saying "I'm gonna get someone on the phone before I kill twenty million people!" One line to nail home what he's doing, and that he knows what he's doing, and it works. The younger tech then pulls out his gun and repeatedly tells his superior to turn the key.
Show, don't tell. Amazing Grace and Chuck is an example of what to avoid, while Wargames is an example of how to do it right.
Oh, one more thing. Wargames may have fairly liberal politics, but it doesn't portray Ronald Reagan as an ogre. When the General in charge of the base is on the phone, he is talking with Reagan, and it's pretty clear that the Prez is saying he's praying we don't end up going through with launching. |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 2:17:05 PM
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I've always been under the impression that they don't put anyone in the silo that hasn't passed rigorous psych profiling to indicate that yes, they will turn the key. Certainly in the days of the Cold War the notion of First Strike was paramount and they knew (or at least, shall we say, believed) that hesitation could lead to horrific consequences. So I never bought those scenes.
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
Edited by - Sardu on 02/11/2008 2:17:58 PM |
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Terrahawk
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
USA
644 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 6:18:11 PM
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They mention in the movie that all of the missile commanders have gone through pysch screening. I bet the government had built in that a certain number of their commanders wouldn't turn the key. Pysch profiling can only do so much. The number given in the movie was high, but I've never considered that part of the movie to be ridiculous.
- Si desea pulse 2 para español, encontrar un país diferente. - |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 6:51:11 PM
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I wouldn't call it ridiculous. I probably wouldn't even say implausible- one can imagine that the reality of taking that step would make many people question it that had thought they were up to it. I just also tend to think that the military can find enough people to man those positions that would have a steely resolve and dedication of purpose- figure a couple hundred G. Gordon Liddys or Ollie Norths *g*- that the situation would be relatively unlikely. Bear in mind I haven't seen the movie in 25 years so I don't really remember specifically what happens, I'm just thinking about the general premise that those guys would question orders, for any reason unless they thought they were bogus.
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
Edited by - Sardu on 02/11/2008 6:51:44 PM |
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Greenhornet
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1791 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 7:08:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BradH812
Someone should do a "right way / wrong way" lesson in screenwriting class. The wrong-way movie could be Amazing Grace and Chuck, and the right-way movie could be Wargames.
In AGAC, Chuck, the main character, is on a school trip to a missile silo(!) The military guy leading the school field trip tells us, very heavy-handedly, how the missile silo technicians carry sidearms in case they get the launch order and their partner isn't willing to go ahead with it. (This was the only scene in the movie I actually saw. It was enough to make me change the channel; everything I've read about the movie since tells me I was right.)
Wargames shows it happening. The two techs get the launch order. The older one (nice variation, I thought) starts trying to contact someone on the outside to confirm this, saying "I'm gonna get someone on the phone before I kill twenty million people!" One line to nail home what he's doing, and that he knows what he's doing, and it works. The younger tech then pulls out his gun and repeatedly tells his superior to turn the key.
YOU got it right Brad, the movie didn't.
I worked in the missle field back in the seventys and we were told to CONFIRM ORDERS. If we got a phone call telling us that someone was coming out, we had to call back and CONFIRM IT.
Then there's the problem of "shoot the man who doesn't turn the launch key". The keys are far enough apart that ONE MAN CAN'T TURN BOTH, so shooting the other man would mean that you couldn't launch anyway.
I have already commented on the scene in WARGAMES where the LCF (Launch Control Facility) is hidden under a fake farmhouse with an argus (See-through) mirror, so I won't repete myself except to say "It ain't so".
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935 |
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Sardu
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
1126 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 7:46:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Greenhornet
Then there's the problem of "shoot the man who doesn't turn the launch key". The keys are far enough apart that ONE MAN CAN'T TURN BOTH, so shooting the other man would mean that you couldn't launch anyway.
"The Queen is testing poisons." CLEOPATRA, 1935
Well yeah, but that doesn't mean that it isn't good motivation anyway. Especially if you only shoot him in the foot.
"Meeting you makes me want to be a real noodle cook"
--Tampopo |
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Citizen Carrier
Holy Cardinal and Five Star General of the Righteous Knighthood of Jabootu
322 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 9:29:39 PM
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The old "special weapons" crew drill for artillery fired nuclear rounds had a few curious safeguards built into the procedure. Basically, the artillery round was delivered to the gun by a special truck. It was unloaded and carried to the howitzer surrounded by a phalanx of soldiers.
Anybody who approached the nuclear shell who wasn't authorized to do so was shot. Well, would have been shot if we ever had to use them.
A friend of mine who was stationed in South Korea during the first Gulf War said that his artillery battery spent a lot of time "practicing" the nuclear shell crew drill within full view of observation posts manned by the North Koreans. It was a simple message to deliver, as it is impossible to mistake the nuclear shell crew procedure for anything other than what it is.
We wanted to tell North Korea that it would be a mistake to think about invading South Korea while our military was focused on liberating Kuwait. I think they got the message. |
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